S1E63 - Kindling Faith at United Lutheran Seminary

This is Keith.

And this is Ben, and this is Main Street Lutherans. We have a great episode for you today. We're going to talk with Reverend Dr. Marty Otto-Zimmond from ULS. He is in charge of a thing called Kindling Faith, a program of education for lay and rostered ministers and everybody in between. And it's a really great conversation. And I have to apologize right away. When we recorded this, I thought I was going to get this episode out right before Reformation Day, and I'd forgotten that Keith and I are having schedule problems. And so we're recording this after Reformation Day. And so we have some references to some things that are past. If the videos for those things have happened, we will— I'll get those on the episode notes. I can tell you that the brew The Brewers did win their game on Friday night, and they also won on Saturday, and then they won on Monday night with a score of 10 to 1. As Keith and I are recording this, the Brewers may have come to win the World Series or the Super Bowl or whatever thing that is. Definitely not the Luther Bowl.

Yeah, who did win the Luther Bowl?

Virginia Theological won the Luther Bowl.

Okay.

And they are Episcopal.

Yeah,

I believe. And so the Episcopalians won the Luther Bowl, which is a problem. And so we as Main Street Lutherans should be recruiting and driving up the NIL for our seminary sports foundations.

Absolutely.

Yeah. That would be the best thing to do.

Yeah, we have a lot of poor there.

Hopefully they sold lots of hot dogs. That was the important part. I understand.

Cool.

Yeah. So since we're going to talk about an education program at the seminary that is not seminary education, I thought I would ask you, because since I'm in seminary, I don't do continuing ed. All of my ed is continuing. What kind of continuing ed does a pastor normally do to make sure that they stay on top of things?

Well, I can answer the first half of that question. I'm not really sure that I stay on top of things, but it does seem— I don't know if when I do my annual report to the bishop, which always happens typically in the first quarter of the calendar year, those are sent to us with a, like, please return within 6 weeks kind of date on them. And the little space there you fill in your continuing ed hours and and subjects, it always seems to me like it's a ridiculously high number expected. I think it's like 50 hours. And so I will just confess, because my bishop already knows this, I've never reached that number, but I try to do my best. Some years I get more than others. So continuing ed for me, there's usually In most years there's like one kind of big conference I'll attend. You know, like you and I went to the Festival of Homiletics a couple years ago.

Yeah.

I've been to that several times. This year in May I went for the first time to the ELCA's conference for pastors of larger congregations. That was cool.

Every 3 years the Washington Ministers Conference, right?

Right, yeah. And those are all conferences that are the, you know, you travel by plane or bus or car or whatever and go away to some place for several days. And, you know, you're at an event at a, you know, a hotel or a resort or big church or whatever it is. So that, but, you know, I do like one of those a year maybe. And then You know, the arrests are— there's a lot of like, you know, these days there's a lot of online options for like, you know, a workshop on stewardship or, you know, LGBTQIA+ issues in the church, that sort of thing. I've done conferences like that with Kindling Faith. You know, I count— I'm part of a lead pastors group in our synod that gets together for lunch, and typically there's anywhere from about 3 to 8 of us, and sometimes the bishop is able to join us. And, you know, I count those as continuing ed because there are always conversations about, you know, not just what's going on in our congregations, in a supportive kind of way, although that is part of it, but it's also about learning from each other about what— some of these people have been there for some time, or they've been lead pastors for a long time, or they just have innovative things going on in their congregations. And so we're constantly sharing ideas, learning from each other's struggles, successes, et cetera. So I count those as continuing education. And Yeah, and then there's other times spent in conversation with colleagues. I was at a reading club, theology reading group this morning that's just getting going at our conference. So as I'm sitting here thinking about it, I'm like, hey, I have to write that down. That was a good hour and a half, 2 hours of theological conversation this morning. So yeah, that's it for me. And then I am— this is not as big a deal as it used to be, but because I'm physically located near an ELCA seminary. That in the past was always kind of a convenient possibility for things. I can't say that I've personally made huge use of that, although I've certainly attended events at Gettysburg Seminary. You know, with the online options anymore, yeah, that's really changed. And that of course is partly what Marty's going to be talking with us about, so I'm looking forward to hearing that.

Yeah. Now, on Friday, I participated in a boundaries workshop, and as I recall, rostered ministers and lay leaders, often in professional circumstances anyway, are required to do at least 2 different workshops periodically, I think every 3 years, right? Mm-hmm. And boundaries, that's a ministerial ethics class. I think is a great way to describe it. And I think, what, anti-racism is one of the standard ones too?

Yep. Yep. And then that SOGI or LGBTQIA awareness sensitivity training kind of thing is the third one. Yeah. And I'm not sure if that one is required in all synods. I know the boundary training is required for all ELCA rostered leaders, and I think the anti-racism training is as well. And this other one is kind of growing in terms of which synods require it. And then there's also this discussion, and I never remember which it is, about whether these things are required, because some of them were every 2 years and some were every 3. And so some synods have upped the requirement. above what the ELCA puts forward just to make it more convenient for everybody that, you know, you have to do them all the same number of years basically.

So they can host one each year and make sure everybody gets into it. Yeah,

something like that. Yeah,

yeah,

yeah. And like you said, with, you know, with Kindling Faith and other organizations like this, the, um, the flexibility of finding something that suits your schedule is a lot easier than it used to be. Yeah. I remember the first boundary workshop I went to was like a 2-day thing and I had to drive an hour each way to get there. And there was an option to stay overnight, but I'm like, I don't want to be away from my family. That seems like a boundary I didn't want to violate for the sake of the training. Right. Yeah. So it was really a pain. But yeah. And I find them, I find even those ones that you have to repeat every couple of years, I always find them meaningful. I hear people complain about them. Um, and there's, you know, some validity to complaints, but I, I still find them meaningful and helpful and good time with colleagues.

Yeah. I think when they're like the corporate ones, you know, like, uh, my, my day job, we have to do, you know, uh, have to do an anti-harassment, uh, program. Right. which is sort of what the boundaries works out to. But if your boundaries workshop is like that, it doesn't— it's not quite as meaningful as when it's customized to a church environment and ministry because context is a little different there.

Yeah,

a lot.

Yeah, the running joke, you know, my wife's a professional psychotherapist, and so she has to do trainings like this every so often as well for her licensing, understandably. And the kind of you know, off-color joke that we throw around sometimes is, you know, this is the reminder of, wait, I'm not supposed to sleep with the clients? What? So yeah, yeah, that's the thing for us too. But

yeah.

Yep.

So those are some of the things there. Also, pastors get sabbaticals occasionally. I think in our synod, it's suggested that synod will orchestrate a sabbatical every 7 years for pastors.

And that seems to also be a growing trend. Yeah, the same is true for our synod, especially in the last several years, like especially as pastors are entering into their first calls. The synod is really encouraging congregations to negotiate into those call documents a sabbatical policy if there's not already one in place.

And so the congregation I'm working with right now would be very happy to have a pastor commit to 7 years and then a sabbatical.

Right.

They haven't had someone stay for 7 years for probably 30 years or 40 years.

Yeah. Yeah. So if I had my first sabbatical in 2023, I'd been ordained for more than 20 years at that point. But, you know, my congregation didn't have a sabbatical policy when I started. They established one first with Kevin, my lead pastor predecessor and former colleague when I was the associate pastor. His had a different kind of model in mind though. He did one month every 3 years. And when I took my first one, when I started planning my first one, I just went with the traditional model of one every— of 3 months every 7 years. So I had one in 2023, which means in 2030 I'm up again. Cool.

Yeah, it's not that far away.

It's really not. It's crazy to think about, but it's not.

All right, well, that's it from us. We will come back after this talk with Reverend Dr. Marty Otto Zimmon.

The Moz.

That's right. So here to talk with us today about kindling faith at the United Lutheran Seminary in Pennsylvania is Pastor Martin Otto Zimmon, Director of Continuing Education there, that among other titles. We'll just throw that in.

Yeah, other duties as assigned.

That's right. It's so great to have you with us today.

It's a blessing to be with you.

So what we want to talk about is kindling faith. We have all sorts of topics we could talk about with you. for sure. But Kindling Faith is a program of ULS. Is that a fair way to describe it?

Yes, it's— I mean, it is an initiative that started a little over 4 years ago. We had continuing ed events, but we did not have a dedicated office to create educational opportunities for lay and rostered leaders of the church that would do— complete 2 things, really. One is it's kind of a funnel that gets lay folk interested in looking into a more formalized seminary education, but it's also a way just for people regardless of whether or not they're rostered or lay, to continue their formation process, to be part of that journey. What I found in the past 4 years, of course, given the cultural zeitgeist that we're living in, is that people are weary and they need respite care. They need hope. They need to be in a room full of people who say, I see you and I I know what you're going through, and I'm going through it as well. So a lot of our events turn out to be very cathartic as kind of a byproduct of the stated intention. So that's been a real cool thing to witness and be part of over the past few years. I guess, does that answer your question?

It does. It does. The events, a lot of them have an online component, probably most of them, is my guess.

Yeah, we— there are 2 reasons for that. Not everybody wants to jump in a car and drive to Philadelphia or Gettysburg, and some of the programs we have designed really have a huge audience across the ELCA. So let's say, for example, if I only offered professional boundary training to people who are willing to show up in person, I would lose probably 70% of the students because I've got people from Oregon Synod signing up for those. I feel bad they have to get out of bed really early, you know, but it's important for us to be able to develop online stuff because We are trying to reach the needs of the geographic ELCA as well as the kind of the spiritually, the spiritual moment of the ELCA. And Lutheranism is different everywhere you go, you know, and but the programming, I think, speaks to a lot of core issues in the church right now. At least that's what we're trying to do. So,

so does ULS, by having 2 campuses, is there a natural fit for this kind of programming?

I think so, because we were doing online stuff at ULS before it was cool, you know, before COVID We recognized that being 2 and a half hours apart gave us a unique challenge and opportunity to develop online education in the, in the regular degree format. And so we were conversant in Zoom technology well before COVID and it was very easy to translate this into continuing at events. And if you go to kindlingfaith.org and click on our events page, you can see that a lot of our events are hybrid. So, you know, some folks can show up in person, but other folks can watch the livestream. For example, here in a few weeks in November, I'm going to interview Kate Bowler. She wrote a book called Joyful Anyway, and it's going to be right after the midterms. So maybe we really will have to talk about how to be joyful anyway. Maybe we'll be like, hey, joyful. Yeah, of course we are. You know, it's just a matter of perspective. But folks can watch that online or they can show up and see it in person. That's just one example.

Yeah, I just referenced her today. She wrote The Lives We Actually Live.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I also think that some of our topics are really important, so they have to be online. Like I mentioned before, for example, in January, we're kicking off another round of what I call Congregational Council 101, because I've had a lot of bishops and pastors coming to me saying, Do you have something for my church council so they know what they are called, what their ministry is about, what they are called to do and be? And of course, every congregation is different, but the needs are very similar across the board. Everybody has to understand what governance is. You know, that's a real page-turner. So we try to accommodate those needs. And so we also do travel trips. I've taken multiple groups to the Holy Land to visit with our partners in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land. We just got a group back from Scotland, and they are still cracking jokes about all the things they saw and did over there. I'm taking— I'm actually, I should say that President Erwin is taking a group to Germany in December. And I'm just doing all the baggage handling, but it's technically, it's a Kindling Faith thing. We're very excited about that. And I am also working to develop trips to India and Mexico City. We've been to Greece. So just those are really awesome events that I think provides both respite care and educational aspects for people to be able to shape their ministries.

Well, those are the international trips. I've got my eye on one to the civil rights destinations in the South in June. So

thanks for bringing that up. I kind of had this wonderful opportunity to meet Loki Mulholland, who is a documentary filmmaker. He's the son of Joan Trumpauer Mulholland, who is a civil rights icon. You've seen her photo, practically everybody in the United States has, because If you open your US government book to the civil rights era pages, there's a picture of her sitting at the Woolworth counter in Jackson, Mississippi, you know, in 1961. And she is— she's a firecracker. She's 84 years old now, and she is, you know, still fighting the good fight. And it occurred— I've had them to both campuses to do speaking events. And it occurred to me, because Loki and I talk on the phone once in a while, and he's like, yeah, you know, my mother did this thing in Birmingham the other day. And I'm like, Loki, what if we just rented a coach, you know, a 50-passenger coach, and paid you and your mom to show us these civil rights stops along the South? So we've developed an itinerary and we're leaving on April 30th. Folks can fly into Atlanta and be part of that trip. I didn't mean to like take over and do an infomercial, but this— I'm really excited because we're going to be going from Atlanta across the South and winding up in Memphis. So we're going to see a lot of stuff in 8 days. Um, it's going to be very powerful. So

I'm terribly interested in that trip. I need to do the trip. Um, I might need to do it on my own because I've got special places I need to go, um, in the process for, for the stuff I'm, you know, doing, um, otherwise. So, but I'm very interested in that trip. So

yeah, I, I've already had a seminary student, uh, she's turning it into an independent study. So Well,

and of course, ULS has that as a class.

Yes, Dr. Earling will do— I forget the name of the course, but basically, you know, they stop at all the important sites and do that kind of thing. I wanted to broaden the audience, you know, and make it more— and Loki's actually going to advertise it and promote it and his network, which, you know, I can't hold a candle to his internet reach. He's got a gazillion people who are interested in the foundation that he and his mother founded. So I think we're going to end up capping the trip, which is really exciting. So

yeah, that's phenomenal, really. So there are classes of various types. There are trips internationally and domestically.

Yeah.

Um, but there's also, you know, we've talked a little bit about lay ministry or, or lay leaders, and, um, and, and of course we talk about rostered leaders, and then, and then just, just plain lay members. And yeah, so this Kindling Faith has a target of everybody, right?

Yes.

Yeah. And so, um, I, I believe there's, there's a bit of a, um, I know that you're working with some synods on their lay ministry classes because those are hard to provide on a synod-by-synod basis.

Yes. Yeah. The program we've developed over the past couple of years is called Equipping the Saints, and we launched our first iteration of that a little over a year ago. We graduated 7 students, I think, from 4 or 5 different synods this past spring. We are going to launch the next iteration in January. There are 8 courses, and if I was a smart person, I would pull up the broadsheet so I could just rattle off those courses to you, but alas, I am not that prepared. Nevertheless, nevertheless, you can rest assured that, you know, we're doing biblical interpretation, we're doing preaching, we're doing church governance, we are doing Lutheran confessions. The one notable absence that a lot of people have asked me about is church history, and we just, you know, that we left that on the cutting room floor because that didn't seem to be a huge priority in a lot of the synods. But pastoral care is another piece that folks, you know, and professional boundaries, that kind of thing. So I'm really hopeful that this next iteration will draw a larger audience from across the ELCA. I need to lean on some of my bishop friends to put it on the listserv of the bishops because it's kind of hard to break through the noise, you know, when it comes to reaching those desks. But there, I've had some conversations with Louise Johnson and she She was most recently at Churchwide doing— I think she was at an innovation desk. I don't know exactly what her title was, but, you know, she was tasked with casting a vision for the future of the ELCA, and she was talking to me a lot about how traditionally our church really leaned heavily into the good order of the office, and that we are an educated, theologically astute church leadership. And I agree with her on that, but I also— it reminds me of a quote that Billy Graham once said. He said, you know, Lutherans have amazing theology, but they're kind of spiritually dead from the neck down. And I thought, ouch, you know. But what I'm starting to see with this blossoming of lay ministry within our ranks is that people are bringing life experience into the pulpit, the kind of stuff that we cannot teach at seminary, for good, bad, and otherwise, right? But what we can do is offer the people who are bringing these gifts to the table a way to be conversant in the same language that rostered leaders use so that they know how to do a hospital visit. They know how to conduct a funeral. And they are able to, in some cases, preside at the table and also at holy baptism. Now granted, that's up to the bishop, right, to grant dispensation, and some bishops are more— I don't know how to say this without incriminating myself, but some bishops are a little more open-minded about that than others. Others do it out of necessity because if you're in a synod that has 70 congregations and you've got 25 ordained rostered leaders, deacons, and pastors, something's got to give, right? So

yeah, when we talked to Bishop Scott Johnson from Nebraska about that.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I'll try to include a link in this episode notes to, uh, to that episode where he talks about that, that need.

Yeah, that's great.

And I think we're seeing a tendency among the synods to adopt some form of lay ministry as part of the official the official workings of the church. Yeah, some, some places out of necessity, sometimes because, um, I think, as, as you said before we, before we got, uh, recording anyway, um, that it's sort of an on-ramp to Rosherd Ministry.

It can be. Um, I'm not saying that that is the stated intention, right, of this program. Um, but if people feel called to go further up and further in, and, you know, to paraphrase C.S. Lewis and the Chronicles of Narnia, you've got this map that can take you there. But I'm also completely happy knowing that there are people who, you know, those 7 people that graduated last spring, most of them were already serving in a congregational context. They just were sharpening their tools. And it was really neat to see them finish the coursework and then move in The next direction in their, their parish ministries. So,

and I'll just add that if, if someone is interested in doing lay ministry, talk to your synod. Don't, don't go taking lay ministry classes thinking that that will just certify you. No, that's not how it works.

Exactly, and it is part of this program. If you intend to enroll in the entire program, take all 8 courses, you need your bishop's blessing. I need to hear from the Synod office that, you know, Joe Schmo has my blessing to partake in this program because I intend to use his or her gifts as a lay, a SAM or a PSALM in my Synod. But anybody could audit a single course just for giggles if they wanted to bone up on church governance or, you know, pastoral care, that kind of thing. So

yeah, um, as far as costs, uh, is— so obviously the travel programs are a bit more.

Yes.

But is there sort of a standard cost for, say, online participation in some of these?

Sure. Online participation costs vary depending on the stipends that we pay our presenters. Um, I am not in the business of making money for the seminary. This is not a program that is supposed to be a revenue stream to you know, bail us out of whatever place we find ourselves. United Lutheran Seminary is very fortunate that we have a strong endowment. 90-plus percent of it is restricted, but nevertheless, we are able to fully fund our degree students. Nobody pays tuition, and that's—

And we appreciate it.

Well, no, seriously, that's a huge, huge thing. Went— at the risk of sounding dated, when I graduated from seminary, a lot of my classmates and myself, we had considerable debt that took us years to pay off. And, and some of them even had undergraduate debt that they were still paying off. So this, this also applies to Kindling Faith. No seminarian has to pay for any Kindling Faith program if they want to opt into it.

Not just ULS, right?

Any ELCA seminarian, that's correct. And I would also go as far to say any seminarian from, you know, any seminary. Not that the Southern Baptists are lining up in droves, but, you know, the mainline Protestant folks, they know that we exist and that they can participate. So for the most part, our online costs are, for the average person, are anywhere from $25 to $50, or we have group these, like Congregational Council 101, I think is like $150 for a congregation.

However big the council is, right?

Yeah, yeah. Well, it doesn't, doesn't matter. You can invite the entire congregation to watch it if you want. So that's, yeah, that's kind of how we determine the costs of these things. Obviously, the overseas travel is more expensive. The civil rights trip we just talked about, that's going to be $2,000, but it's pretty much all inclusive. So yeah, we're not in it to make money. We're just in it to cover the cost of the events that we're presenting.

Awesome. Now, Kindling Faith isn't the only— that's not the only programs that United Lutheran Seminary conducts, right?

Right.

I know that the Urban Theological Institute had some programs.

Yeah.

a conference and what, CIBL, the Conference of International Black Lutherans.

Yes, these are important programs. The Urban Theological Institute is over 45 years old now, and the Black church in Philadelphia is much stronger for it. And the cross-pollination that occurs between our, how shall I say, traditional white students, Lutheran students, and members of the AME and COGIC churches. It really helps us from all sides to be better theologians and better preachers and better thinkers, because it forces us to understand what it is that makes us unique in our theological calling and understanding of Scripture and our place in the universe. So those are important programs. I should also throw a shout out to Dr. Gil Waldkenig, who has shepherded and stewarded the Town and Country Church Institute for close to 25— no, almost 30 years now. He has a special gift in creating coursework around Appalachian and rural ministry. And he really understands the socioeconomic and cultural aspects of these rural areas and helps students understand how to do ministry in those contexts as well. There are other programs I'm leaving out that I should also mention. The Stewardship of Life Institute that we historically have been giving out— oh, for over 10 years we've given away close to $1 million in grants just to help congregations do stewardship education in their own context or in their synodical context. We are kind of— the institute is evolving right now. I think we're going to start doing some more hands-on stuff, doing regional events around the ELCA. So that's an important ministry of ULS as well. I think I covered most of the— We also have an Asian Theological Institute. I should not Forswear that, and an Anglican Institute. So yeah, we have, we're trying to do an awful lot with a fairly small faculty, but fortunately people are nimble and I think they're able to, you know, do adaptive management, I guess is the new buzzword, right?

Yeah, actually we'll have Paul Walters.

Paul Walters, yeah.

Yeah, he's going to talk about stewardship with us here in a bit, so. So that'll be—

he's been with GSB forever. Yeah, he's good people. So

yeah, we're going to talk to him about those trips too. So that'll be nice.

Great. Great.

Let's see, back on that. So focusing on the theological education for lay folks, of course, most of the folks who will listen to us here are not going to try to become rostered leaders or lay ministers or or any of those things. So why should they get a lay education in theology? Isn't that the job of the pastor that they give their money to?

Well, that's— there are a lot of ways to answer that question. And so there is no one perfect answer. I think everybody's faith journey is different. Everybody's understanding of their relationship between themselves and their creator and the creation is unique and different. But if you're a person who wants to be a better neighbor, a better spouse, a better parent, a better sibling, or a better child, a better member of your congregation. I think there are ways in which you can enrich your life, not just through, you know, adult Sunday school class, but through an intentional disciplinary spiritual journey that will lead you to points of inflection and critical thinking about what gives us meaning and purpose in this life. Um, some, you know, when I was teaching stewardship, I would often say to people— this isn't as common anymore, you know— I would say, get out your check register. Most of us keep spreadsheets, I guess, nowadays. But, and, and I'd say, just sit there for a minute, look at your check register, and think about the Bible verse, where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. So if your check register reflects that you're doing a lot of stuff for your kids, that's fantastic. That's where your heart is, and that's a, that's a holy calling, uh, to, to be a parent, you know. Um, and I believe in this day and age, parenting is crazy difficult. Um, the challenges that our kids are facing now are unprecedented. Uh, many of them are, you know, being led into all sorts of strange situations by AI chatbots, you know, who'd have thought, right, that this kind of thing would become part of our culture so quickly?

It didn't seem like it would be real when it was, you know, WarGames and all that.

Right, right. You know, Tron was—

Movies from the '80s.

Yeah, Tron was a great movie, but now here we are and they are actually operating among us. The agents are breaking out of the cage, right, and doing things. So the challenges that people face in this lifetime, and I should also mention our current political situation is highly galvanized and people are, you know, living in their silos and, and casting aspersion across the aisle. That's kind of new-ish. I mean, we've faced political turmoil before, but now it's exacerbated by the world of social media, and anybody can get a megaphone and say Horrible things about other people. So our faith, our our promise of the communion of saints and the forgiveness of sins and the resurrection to eternal life—these are lifelines that are tossed out to us, and we have an opportunity, I think, to understand the meaning of those those things more. And it enriches us and makes us more competent servant leaders, not just in the church but in the world. And that's why I would personally encourage people to just keep learning, keep asking the complicated questions. I love it when people ask me questions that I have no clue how to answer. My PhD is, you know, a piece of paper on the wall, and it's a symbol of a lot of work that I've done, but that's in one particular area. So Odds are it's very easy to stump the professor, and, and that's a good thing because we need to be asking complicated questions right now because it's a very complicated world. And I think programs like Kindling Faith can, can help people find those answers together. So, boy, that almost— that sounded like an infomercial. Sorry.

Well, but it also leaves open the chance to say that, that Kindling Faith isn't the only program like this. Several other seminaries have similar things. And so, but we're not going to talk about what they've got to offer yet.

Well, no, I have tremendous respect for the folks at Faith and Lead. I think they're doing some amazing stuff out there. I absolutely adore Grace Pomeroy, who works at Luther, and the stuff she's doing with stewardship right now is groundbreaking and incredible. If you can ever book her on your podcast, please do so. She's just such a lovely person. Yeah. So

yeah, absolutely. Um, and yeah, and, and, and that's not even to say that there's even stuff out there that's not ELCA stuff that's good. So

how dare you?

I know, I know. Better not let, let Southeast Michigan Synod candidacy know.

I'm calling Bishop Chris as we speak.

All right, so this has been great. How does one get started? You've already mentioned the Kindling Faith website.

Well, you can always drop me an email at, at uls.edu, [email protected], and you can find my email address on kindlingfaith.org as well. find out what it is you're interested in, in doing, um, with, with your spiritual formation, with your education, and I'll see if we have something on paper that might fit that need. And if we don't, maybe the two of us can come up with an idea for a program. Some of my best ideas have not been my best ideas. There are people who come to me and say, hey, You know, I've got this thing that I'd like to try, and I just need a place to try it. So, like, I've got a young pastor from Wisconsin who has this tremendous knowledge about reproductive rights, and she's never had the opportunity to share that wisdom. And so I was like, well, let's do a virtual lunch and learn. And so Pastor Morgan is going to be doing that for us here in November. And I'm really excited and hope that we get a huge audience for it so that we can be more astute and conversant in that very important topic in this current day and age. So that's just one example.

Well, so some events that are coming up that I'm interested in is one of them because I'm required to go for some of my classes is the Luther Colloquy. This episode comes out on Saturday, and so the Monday following that on October 26th is the Luther Luther Colloquy celebrating Luther going to seminary and 200 years of Gettysburg and Philadelphia as seminaries, right?

Right, and we've invited some people who study history and who've lived some of the history. We've got Dr. Maria Erling, Dr. Karl Krueger, and Dr. Tim Wingert, who both were at Philadelphia. And of course, President Erwin is a Luther historian, and he is a student of history as well. And he, in the 5, 6, 7 years that he's been here, he has learned the history of both seminaries forward and backward. And I'm really looking forward to hearing these 4 folks talk about how it is that in our cultural moments through the past 200 years, these schools have chosen to— how they've chosen to interpret the confessions and what happened during the Reformation and how that historiography evolved into the present day and the kind of church that we are now and that we are striving to become. So yeah, will I— will you be there in person or are you just gonna be— No.

Actually, I have classes on Monday. So actually, one of the classes that requires I go to it is on Monday. And so we'll see how that works out.

That sounds a little ironic. Yeah, but,

but

yeah, we have an annual Luther Colloquy. We also have an annual fall and spring convocation, and those topics vary from year to year. Fall convocation this year was this amazing conversation around AI and how these online communities can be both spiritually uplifting. Deanna Thompson talked about the virtual body of Christ and how it is that people who are suffering various infirmities can find support groups online that become church to them. And then we had a guy, Michael Hannigan, from Oklahoma, who is part of an institute of just kind of keeping up with the trends in AI. And what he talked about was both exhilarating and exciting and scary as all get out, because we just don't know. It's hard to predict what AI is going to become and how the church needs to respond to it. So, right. So that's another— I'm— you get me all, you know, excited.

I'll start it up.

Yeah, I start preaching. It's— yeah.

The thing I'm also interested in, partially because a lot of the presenters are folks that we've had on the podcast, it's January 6th and 7th, Belonging Embodied.

Yeah.

And so we'll have links to all those things, but that is going to be an interesting thing. It's all virtual, if I remember correctly.

That's right. It's a 2-day virtual event, and the scheduled speakers include Moses Barrios, Al Dowd, Dr. John Paul, David Shearer, who most of us remember as the rapper Agape.

That's right, we had him on the show.

Yeah, Christina Montgomery, Nicolette Fezion— I might be butchering the last name— Ed Kay, who many of us know, and our guest preacher is going to be C.C. Mills, the ELCA secretary. So it's an incredible lineup, and I'm really happy to be working with Carla Christopher. Shout out to the deep, deep, deep wisdom that she brings to the table. She is so many things and such a gift to the church. And I love working with her on Ken Lingfei stuff. She's just a joy. So

yeah,

that's a good program. I'm glad you're going to be part of it.

Yeah, so we hope that our listeners get a chance to be part of that there. So

Yeah, great.

Unfortunately, that's also a thing I've got. That is, that is week 1 of intensives.

That's true.

And so we will have difficulty with that one. But

well, these are also things that we, if we get everybody's permission, we can record it and it becomes part of our resource archive that people can access via the website.

Right.

So like, if you, if you're a big fan of Anne Lamott, I interviewed her a year ago in September, uh, the day after, uh, Charlie Kirk was shot. And so that was an interesting conversation, you know. Oh, sure. Um, uh, and that's in our resource archive if you wanted to, uh, to tap into that. And just tons of other things that we've got in there, and the Seminary Podcast as well. So, yeah,

we'll have to have those folks on at some point. Definitely. So I put on there upcoming events and, um, 2 things I wasn't prepared for. I should have thought about Luther Bowl, uh, which will be happening as this podcast comes out. I remember hearing about Luther Bowl when I was at Capital and my friends were enrolled at Trinity.

Sure. Yeah.

And so that's our homecoming at ULS, right? It's sort of a new thing that's developed out of that.

Yeah, it is a ULS homecoming, but traditionally it dates back, I think, to the early '90s. And back in the day, you know, we'd have 5 out of 7 ELCA seminaries showing up for stuff. It's kind of hard for folks to make the journey nowadays because the number of residential students in every seminary context has decreased. And a lot of people are learning online and virtually.

And a lot of us are over 50.

And

yeah, so playing football just doesn't seem like a thing.

Even touch football. The joke is it's a boring year if we don't call the ambulance. Now, don't quote me on that. I just said it on a podcast, so I guess it's real now. But it's, you know, we have had, unfortunately, people who we've broken bones and things. But in the spirit of good fun, um, the football game we play, uh, on the back 40 at the Gettysburg campus, which is actually part of the, you know, Civil War battlefield— that's kind of ironic— um, is an annual event. And some of us, uh, you know, dress up and make signs and make corny, nerdy, churchy jokes and There's usually Reformation beverages and singing and worship and lots of good things that happen. So if you're interested in learning more about Luther Bowl, it's usually Reformation weekend every year, and alums, lay folk, anybody can drive out and bring a lawn chair, and we'll sell you a hot dog and a beverage, and you can watch seminarians, pale, pasty seminarians running around the football field being outdone by their younger colleagues.

If they say UFTA, they're from Luther.

That's— yeah, I, you know, I don't know if we've ever fielded a team from Luther. That would be a long haul for them, probably. And nobody— I think we have in the past once or twice had a Wartburg team, never had a Pacific team. We've had a lot of teams from Southern and Trinity. Yeah, in Chicago. So yeah, there's always room for more. This year we have one team that we're playing. We're playing Virginia Theological Seminary. So it's going to be the Anglicans versus the Lutherans, and we'll, we'll see whose doctrine wins out. And, you

know, well, we did hear that the Nebraska Synod has an inflatable Martin Luther. Maybe they can send it over so that there's a mascot to be on the field, but

Well, we, we're gonna have a mascot this year. We have a large— it's a little tongue-in-cheek— we have a large plastic bull that we're going to tie to the roof of the seminary golf cart, and it's a papal bull. You get it? I get it. See what I'm doing there?

Yes, absolutely.

And since this is coming out on Saturday, I'm not spoiling anything. So if you want to see the papal bull, We'll probably have a picture of it up on the on our Facebook.

Well, I'm gonna expect to see that at the youth gathering next summer. So

oh well, yeah, challenge accepted. There you go. The people pool.

I was afraid that this was going to be VH's thing with his Greek inside jokes. So that's good to

know. I there's probably room for that too. And I imagine VH will be there saying very VH type things.

Yes.

For those of you who that's inside baseball, Mark Battalos. Mark Vettalis Hoffman is a New Testament professor, unfortunately retiring after many, many years of wonderful service to the community. But he also, you know, there's dad jokes and then there's seminary professor jokes, and he is the, you know, the master of seminary professor jokes. Absolutely.

And the other event of note that you did put on this list deals with something that would have happened last night as this podcast comes out. And so I'm certain that the Brewers will have won Game 1 of the 2026 World Series.

Amen. Yes. No, no, you know, not, not tossing any shade at Tampa Bay, but, you know, the Milwaukee Brewers, how can you not love them? I mean, it's, it's where Laverne and Shirley are from, for crying out loud. You know, you gotta, you gotta love a town where you go to work in the morning and have a beer and a donut. It's

in a Harley.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And a Harley. So

there you go.

Yeah, I'm all in for the Brewers, and I'm not even a baseball fan really, but I'm, I'm happy that they're there. I was actually hoping the Cleveland Guardians were going to be part of it, but yeah, you can't have everything. So

that's right. Well, I was hoping for the Tigers, but we'll wait another century. So

yeah,

that's all right.

Okay,

well, it's been excellent talking with you. I'm sure we'll, we'll have other reasons to talk on the podcast and otherwise.

Sure. And thank you in advance for editing out the parts where I was stuttering and fumbling around and, you know, all, all the things.

Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you very much. It's too bad Keith couldn't be on for this part, but I'm sure he'll have plenty to say in the other segments.

I, I look forward to hearing him roast me in absentia. So that's great.

Well, I want to say thank you to Dr. Zimmon for taking time to record with you, Ben. I really appreciated hearing from him. I think Marty is just an amazing person, and it's always great to hear him speak about Kindling Faith because it is something that he's quite passionate about. And I learned things in this episode that I didn't know they offered at Kindling Faith, including some of the travel options, the trips to Greece and the Middle East, and even to the American South. So I'm going to look into that a little bit more. And then the class on reproductive rights caught my ear too, since, you know, as a parent who's— one of my 2 children was brought into the world through fertility assistance. Yeah, that's something that's near and dear to my and my wife's hearts. So. Glad to hear that that's something that's being offered. I think that's pretty cool.

Yeah, and it's also neat to know that the schedule for those things is flexible and that people bring things to that to participate. If you look at the schedule for Kindling Faith, it is just event after event after event. A lot of those things end up on YouTube, so you can see some of those later. And there are other things happening at the seminary. We don't want to leave out everybody else. Luther has a bunch of stuff. I think Wartburg has some stuff, and Pacific has some stuff for sure. Those are the things I know about, of course. There's lots. And we talked about the Luther Colloquy, which I believe is not a Kindling Faith event, but which will—

No, I think that was just the seminary recognizing its 200th year at the Gettysburg campus anyway.

Yeah, the colloquy happens every Luther Bowl weekend, so it's part of that thing.

Oh, right.

The theme for this was based on the 200 years, but it's part of that general event, which is ULS's homecoming.

So

I missed homecoming. I didn't have a date, so.

Right.

Yeah, I guess with that, Main Street Lutherans is hosted by Keith Fair and Ben Fote, and the show is produced by Fote Media Productions. Find all our contact information, links, and a transcript in the episode notes. And again, thanks to Dr. Otto Zimmon for being with us on this episode. And until next time, go in peace, serve the Lord.

Thanks be to God.