This is Keith and this is Ben and this is Main Street Lutherans. We have quite a show for you today. We are going to talk with the organizing, the folks who organize the ELCA youth gathering, getting ready for our next one in 2027. And before we do that, we'll talk about some of our past experience with youth gathering. Keith, you.

Yeah. So you attended some as a youth, right, Ben?

Well, I attended one my junior year. I think it was, it would have been 1991. I went to Dallas. So that would have been before my senior year of high school. Went to Dallas and didn't know anything about it. I know that our youth group had gone and just sort of got on the plane and showed up there. I don't remember a whole lot of details of anything. It was, you know, such a rush, all these things going on. I just remember seeing Dallas and seeing how spread out downtown was still amazed by that. Yeah. And then, and then three years later, I was hotel staff. I think it was at the Hyatt Hyatt Regency in downtown Atlanta, one of the, I think the biggest property that we used for, for hotels. And I was the singular youth leader for that, which was, was an interesting experience. So. So yeah, it was a lot of fun. But you've chaperoned, right?

I have, yeah. I never. The little church that I went to in Glenrock, I know that I heard a passing reference to it once as a youth that I look back on, you know, as a young adult, I'm like, oh, that's what they were talking about was this, this national youth gathering.

Yeah.

But no, I, I never attended one. I never really knew what it was until I was already in college when I took my first call. I started on, you know, after, after the call vote was done, and I actually started in my office on a Monday. And I think it was right after, like my call vote may have even happened on a day that, that our youth group got back from one of the gatherings in 2000. And then the first one that I attended was 2003, which I think was in Atlanta again.

Could have been. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think I was actually in that hotel because I remember seeing it, you know how it had been renovated for the Olympics.

Yes.

And then.

Well, so this one had a big funnel made out of. It's still there. It's copper pipes, A giant copper pipe funnel.

Yeah. And then like all around the perimeter, there's like a mezzanine in the lobby.

Area, which is enormous.

And there's all around it. You know, it had like the Olympic rings and Atlanta, 1996.

Oh, sure.

And all of that stuff. So, yeah, I think that was it. I didn't stay there, but I went there for one of the hotel nights.

Sure.

Yeah. I've gone to, I think, two more with St. Matthew. One shortly after I began here, and then one that Debbie and I went. My wife and I were both along on a couple years later.

Yeah. One of the things I remember from talking about gatherings was. I don't know if I mentioned in our interview, but my mother's family has a lot of connections to the Luther League and the predecessor youth gatherings that happened. And so one of my aunts was really involved in some of the programming, and she just swore by taking the bus, like, everybody should go to the gathering in a bus no matter what. And when. When flights became cheap enough to. For gatherings that way, she still insisted on buses. Buses are too expensive now. Flying's much cheaper. So. But did you. Have you done the bus. The bus trip?

Not for a gathering. No. We've always flown. I've done some significant travel for mission trips on buses, though. And. Yeah.

Now, see, I want to take the train and. You've taken the train to Minneapolis. Oh, I'm giving away a question. Oh, wait, that was last week's. That was the last episode's answer.

So, yeah, we're safe now.

Yeah, we're safe, but. So you've taken the train to Minneapolis. That's what I want to do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that was, you know, mostly. Cool.

Yeah. I'm not.

I'm not so sure about the notion of trying to travel with a large group by train, but I'm sure it's possible. Yeah. I mean, there is the thing about the bus. It's really hard to lose someone. Well, that's true, as you're traveling by bus. Right. Because it's. Because the systems for keeping track of everybody are pretty straightforward. And the bus isn't going to leave until you tell it to. I mean, you're on schedule, but it's easy to just say, hey, we've got one more kid in the bathroom. Wait five minutes.

True.

Planes don't do that.

Well, and. And, you know, we'll go to context here that my son was, you know, in. In New Orleans and they arrived on. On Tuesday. We're supposed to fly back on on Saturday. And because of the hacking event that happened, they didn't get home till Tuesday. So they were. They were in New Orleans for an entire week.

That's right. Yeah. There were additional. There were a Number very large percentage of people that were at the last gathering that had.

But had they been on a bus.

Right.

Or a train, they would have been fine.

Yep.

They would have gotten back on time.

Oh yeah. So don't you wish there was something like it for adults?

You know, I do. There's a reference to this in our talk when we talked with Drew Tucker about camping, he mentioned something about how camps. There were Lutheran camps that operated as gathering points for non geographic synods for people of, of like ethnicity or other things in common. And since then I've been thinking, you know, we need something like that, a place where folks from around the country can get together about faith stuff that isn't necessarily like the Wild Goose Festival or something on that line, but something that, you know, a little bit smaller, a little less programmed.

Yeah, yeah. A little more, little more fun, a little less academic.

Yeah.

Although I've in my first call again because I was primarily focused on youth ministry. As a pastor in my first church, I attended a number of the youth specialties publishing house, National Youth Workers conventions. And I have to say those were very much like the, you know, see youth gathering, of course, a slightly different theological focus, but in terms of like that, you know, their large group gatherings, you know, were really music driven, great speakers and because they're youth workers, you know, they like having fun. So they would have, you know, the massive beach balls that you're passing around the crowd and yeah. The cameras in an inflatable ball that you could pass around and you know, lots of noise makers and string can string flying around the place.

Yeah.

So that was, that was a good time.

Yeah. I'm hoping that maybe, maybe next summer, maybe 20, 26, that we might be able to entertain the idea of having, having a space for folks to come together no matter what their age is, but something like that.

So I'm also fortunate to be in a senate now in Lower Square Hannah, where we've, you know, it's a, it's a fairly geographically small area. It's only nine counties in south central Pennsylvania and we have a pretty large number of congregations in that area and you know, some really active youth ministry stuff. And one of the things is that we still have a synod youth gathering every year. Oh, that's called, it's called Winterfest and it happens at a big hotel, you know, nearby. So it's very drivable for everyone. It's only a weekend. It's always the first weekend after New Year's in January, which is hence the name Winterfest.

Yeah, See, we have one for all of Michigan and it happens in Traverse City. And Traverse City is a long, long way from here. I mean, probably, probably four or five hours. You know, I'm in the extreme, extreme southeast corner and that is up in the pinky tip area of our mitten. So. So yeah, it's not very close. It's hard to get. You know, it's for my primarily middle school kids. Okay, so that's a long way to take middle school kids.

Yeah, yeah. And is it also a weekend?

It is, yeah.

So that's a long drive for a two night stay.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. I don't think there's anybody. Because this event's in Lancaster. I don't think anyone has to drive more than an hour and a half to get there.

Yeah. So you could do that on a Friday night.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right, well, we will be talking here with Jessica and Justin and. And Beth. And so this is a great conversation. I think you will enjoy it. And we will talk again on the other side. Today we have with us the leadership team of the ELCA youth Gathering. They are from a wide spat of America here. So let's have you guys introduce yourselves and we'll get talking about the gathering here.

Sounds great. Hi, friends. I'm Deacon Jess Lyles, director of the ELSA Youth Gathering and youth ministry for churchwide organization. I live in Bentonville, Arkansas with my family, husband and two kiddos. And some kind of interesting things I think is also fun for you all to know is kind of like our history and connections to the gathering since we've landed in our roles. So for me, growing up in like the smallest town, north corner of North Dakota, I never got a chance to attend a youth gathering as a participant. I remember seeing the poster in the basement of my church, thinking that would be a cool thing to do someday. But being so small, there was not a leader to bring us. And I'm not sure how many young people would have signed up to do this one thing. So interesting fact for me is never got to attend as a participant, but then went to seminary and got connected to the Gathering in 2009 and was on the team for interactive learning. And then in 2122, the gathering that was not was asked to be the interactive learning team leader for both that gathering and then 2024 gathering. But then I shifted into this role. So it's been a fun journey for me. So.

Hi everyone. My name is Justin Wilson. I serve as the manager for engagement and resources for the gathering. I live in Seattle So the tiny corner of the United States. And, yeah, I'm coming up on year six on gathering staff, which seems like a long time, but really, it feels like it's flown by. My first gathering was in 2012 as a participant, and then I joined staff right after the 2018 gathering. And then this last cycle was actually the first gathering I got to see fully come to light. So it was kind of a full circle moment, going from my first gathering in New Orleans to then my first gathering, leading a team and everything. And so it was pretty special.

And I am Deacon Beth Hartfield. I am the event logistics and administration coordinator for the gathering, and I live in Houston. So I've just been on staff for one year and jumped right in. But I have history with the gathering. I went to the 94 gathering in Atlanta, and then I was an adult leader with my church youth group in 2003 and 2006, and then in 2009, 1215, I was a team member, and then I was the interactive learning team leader for the 2018 gathering and now a staff member. So I've seen the gathering from all sorts of sides of this event.

Oh, you sure have.

I'm glad to be here.

So the ELCA Youth Gathering, I think anyone who's grown up in the church has at least heard about it. Hopefully. Hopefully everybody already has, and we're not introducing anything to anybody. But tell us a little bit about it, what its purpose is, maybe. Maybe how it's come to be what it is.

I'll start a little bit with just a tiny touch of history, and then I'll pass it on to Jess. But this is not new. The Gathering of Youth, Lutheran Youth is. Has been around for over 100 years. Right. Like, ELCA was formed in 1988, and both the. The predecessor bodies, the ALC and the LCA, were gathering youth in various forms. So we have a long, rich history. But since the ELCA has been formed, the youth gathering has happened every three years, with the exception of 21, 22, and basically in the central United States, so that it's a lot easier for people to arrive at. Right. And so, yeah, Jess, you want to give a little bit more about purpose?

Yeah, absolutely. For us, the gathering is about creating experiences for our high school students to explore faith. Right. And form community and then learn about the larger church. So many of our young people, the first time they hear about Lutheran disaster response, world hunger, their seminaries, maybe all these different ministries that happen within the churchwide organization, this is one of the first times they Ever get to get connected to that, those different types of ministry. And I think what's fun for us, and maybe Beth and I are a little bit more biased in this area because this happens in interactive learning, right? Like, our young people get to get tangible with their faith in ways that they maybe never have before. We, since the three of us, have. Have landed on staff, have been working on kind of flushing on our values. And for us, at the core of that is faith and spirituality, right? Giving her a chance, our young people, to look at faith in a way that maybe they never have before outside of attending service or their youth group or mission trip. But this kind of makes it tangible in a way that maybe they haven't experienced before. And I think one that came especially out of this last gathering was authenticity. It's so important for our young people to show up as who they are, and not only in that vein, but for them to see other people. They see themselves and other people. It's a really important value that we have. And connection, right? I think it's so amazing for our young people to walk into the stadium, the arena, and to see other Lutherans from across the world and to get to connected, to meet them, learn about their congregations, their settings, their faith story is super important for us as well. And then, right, that kind of goes back into learning about the larger church, but curiosity, asking them to walk into a space to learn more, to ask questions, to challenge, and then also to be in a space to receive information, to be curious about the church and ministries among the ELCA and inclusion, right, that goes back into that space of being able to walk in authentically as you are and then make connections with others from across the world that maybe you never have ever experienced before. And so being inclusive is. Is very important for us. And, of course, fun, right? We want our young people to experience some fun, whether that be a Congo line at mass gathering or, you know, getting pizza and sharing it with our neighbors, living on the streets, or different things like that. Like, we just. We want them to experience spaces to have fun. We do bounce houses and all kinds of different things for them to have a little bit of fun. And I think, too, it's important to remember that the gathering is the largest thing that our denomination does. It is the largest gathering of Lutherans, and it also is the largest gathering of our different folks with different abilities. Right. That table, that's the largest gathering we have. And then also with Mile, it is, again, the largest gathering of people from different ethnic backgrounds. And so it's an important piece for us to always lift up. And I think the importance in here, too, right, is. Is that we're investing in our young people. It's important that our churches and our young people see that we're investing in them and that their ministry, their faith, is really important. I would encourage everyone to go and read the Sacred Playground study that was put out that talked about the four major ministries or events that happen in a young person's life that leads them into a call to ministry. And the gathering is one of those ministries or events that happens in a young person's life. The other two, or, sorry, the other three are camps, Sunday school and campus ministry that helps our young people lead into the ministry. And that looks like very different things, right, for our young people. It could be a pastor or a deacon or, oh, my gosh, what other fun things, right, like advocacy. There's just a lot of places. Right. That our young people end up living out their call.

Oh, for sure. You're. You're talking about talking about being authentic. Pastor Keith Miles Wallace was on a few episodes ago, and Drew Tucker was on, and I. I remember their talks, particularly at Mass gathering, and how they focused on that authenticity. And it's so great, great to get to know them, too. And that's a callback to those episodes, if you haven't heard them yet. So, yeah, it was amazing. As a matter of fact, when my son came back from that and was telling me what his favorites were, those were actually his two favorite talks. And so that spoke to him dramatically, you know, in a way that I don't think anybody else could have reached that. That environment. And. And the topics really, really snagged him, and it's been really important there. So, yeah, we talked about the size of the gathering. You talk about it being the largest gathering that we have as. As a. As a denomination, and you're not talking about just youth gather. You know, we never get our adults to that number of people. I couldn't even imagine what a churchwide assembly with seven, you know, 14, 15, 17,000 people would look like. It would probably be out of control, to be honest. But. And that says a lot for how we can have teenagers come together at that. At that size. So size wise, how big was it? I heard lots of different numbers.

Yeah. So the 2024 gathering, we had 16,000 people from across the country, across the world come together. In New Orleans, we often hear people still refer to the gathering as the National Youth Gathering, but we actually don't refer to ourselves as that Anymore because we have international guests come in from Companion Synods. And LWF had some folks come in, so it's exciting to see kind of people from all over come in for one purpose. But, yeah, in 2024, we had 16,000 people. Previous gatherings, we've had some more. But it's still a surreal experience to walk into, like, Smoothie King arena and see pretty much every single seat filled.

It's just the boxes. I need to note that the kids were invited to use the box seats as well. And that was pretty amazing.

I mean, we had to. Well, yeah, if we didn't use the box seats, we simply would have to close the door and not allow people in. And so that was a shift that we had to make earlier this spring when we were. So we were originally planning on being at the Superdome in New Orleans, but construction for the super bowl happening in next year actually was not complete, so we had to shift over to Smoothie King. And it just. It was a perfect pivot for us. It was so cool to just see an entire space filled.

Oh, for sure. And on video. I don't know if those videos are still on YouTube. There were issues during the gathering where they were on and then off and. And all that. But are they still. Are they out there for people to take a look at?

We have a few videos, a few recaps on. On YouTube, but a lot of our mass gathering kind of recordings are in our gathering remix curriculum.

Okay.

And we'll include some links to all that in the show notes here so people can take a look. It was really amazing to see that. And as a parent, it was really neat. So venues. So you had Smoothie King arena, there was a convention center, and then hotels played a big role in that too. Right. How many venues all together were you coordinating?

Oh, gosh, swimming needs to count.

And does it include Cafe Du Monde? Because I think that played a prominent role there too.

I mean, I think that was an unofficial venue for sure. But yeah, we had Convention center, which is massive. I mean, it spans entire mile long. We had Smoothy King Center. We also had 39 hotel properties across the 39 City of New Orleans. Yep. And then occasionally we had a few other kind of smaller venues in the. In the quarter, particularly for our LANYUP stations, which was the scavenger hunt. So a lot of venues, a lot of logistics, but it's always fun. So here we are.

Yeah. And how many sites were there for. For service projects?

Yeah, I think we were over 200.

200 locations.

206 sites, which is incredible. We had so many different accompaniment sites kind of all coming into three buckets of advocacy, awareness and action. I was like, what was the other one? Action. And so connected with partners from New Orleans and across the country, young people got to experience accompaniment. And it was great.

I think, you know, I live in Detroit, which has the auto show, and I think. I think the ELCA Youth gathering is something like the auto show. When the youth gathering is in a city, it impacts it in such a way that you can't ignore that it's there.

Right.

You know, even if. Even if it's not as big as it used to be, it's still at a scale where it's. It will be. It has the impact of the Super Bowl, I think, you know, in many different ways. Many of them that reach even further into community than say, a Super bowl would. So.

So for.

Hasn't experienced it. That's.

Yeah. Given all of that size and those numbers. And I heard earlier you say that, you know, the idea was someplace in sort of the central part of the country. How many different potential cities could host this event? I mean, I've been to. I'm not sure. I think four or five galleys, because more than one of them was in New Orleans. Now, I've lost track, sir.

But.

Yeah, I mean, there are. There's only so many places that can. That can actually host this. And then alongside that, I'm curious, how far in advance do you start making those contracts? I mean, I realize that now, you know, it's a slightly different world since the pandemic than previously, but typically speaking, how. How many gatherings ahead have a. Determined. So far?

Yeah, that's a great question. A lot of times, I think people attending the gathering often think that we just make the decision, like at the gathering, at the gathering and just toss up the city on the jumbotron and call it a day. But there's a lot of small details and conversations that go into it. I couldn't tell you exactly the number of cities that could actually host us, but there's a variety of different kind of. Not curriculum, different categories or factors that kind of go into play. We need like, a certain number of hotel rooms within a certain radius every single night for five nights. And we need like an indoor venue for mass gathering. We need a convention center within walking distance from that space. We need like an airport relatively close to the city. So, like, there are a lot of different factors that kind of play into this. So there's not a ton of cities that actually could host us. But yeah, we typically in the event world, they like to think of our event as a massive citywide event. Right. You're basically taking over convention center, a stadium and a good chunk of their hotels. They like to plan about 10 years in advance. So we try to follow that. But yeah, it is, it is well thought out and well, yeah, 10 years in advance. It's just crazy to think and wrap your mind around that. Like yeah, you, you have so much to do in little details for 2027 yet. We should also be thinking about 2033. So it's just wild.

Yeah. So you know, when we talk about the size, you know, number of venues and the length, you said the main gathering is five days and then there's free events that deal with that and I know training for staff, you know, on site staff and volunteers, that's before that even. So that's how much so on site there that week, is it 10 days? 12. As far as official operations, obviously it's about six years probably. But yeah, I mean when did you arrive in, in New Orleans?

I'm trying to think.

Or was it in June or May?

July 8th is when we arrived. Right. So like about a two week window where staff and some of the team leaders get on site. Right. So some teams definitely need to be in much earlier. So our transportation and logistics teams that get in a lot earlier, our pre event teams, they need to get in earlier too. And so I mean we were probably 14 to 15 days staff and some of our team leaders were in. And that's not including. Right. The massive IT outage that happened that caused so many people to extend their.

Wasn't that wasn't on the list of things we were going to talk about? Well, it was a major factor for sure.

So I mean we can't control hackers, but so that was a, that was a fun, exciting experience for all of us.

Yeah.

We're essentially moving into the city during the event. We had a calendar that we created to tape up into our hotel rooms to tear away, to remind us we're walking out the door like oh, today's Wednesday.

Or it probably felt like an apartment by that point.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, yeah.

What's the budget for the event roughly?

The budget is a multi million dollar budget. Right. And so like going back to kind of the factors of what makes the event happen. Venue cost, hotel cost, contract cost. Contracts mean all kinds of things. Right. Production company contracts with bands or speakers, our transportation contracts, how much buses costs and all those like security contracts. I mean, the amount of things fluctuate. And another interesting too is like you think about different types of cities and labor gets to play a big piece of that as well too, if it's a union city. So there are a lot of variables that go into kind of figuring out the budget, if you will. I, I like to think about the levers, right? Like we can, we can release, we can pull this lever, but we're going to need to release a few more levers. If this is the direction we want to go, then there's got to be some give and take when we think about the budget aspect of it. So.

And not all of those levers are connected to the number of participants. Right. We're going to pay for a mass gathering venue no matter how many people are in it. Hotel rooms will change based on the number of people. Right. So it's a, another layer of levers there. Right.

There are a lot of fixed costs and then there are variable costs that we get to figure out as well too.

So again, just ballpark, are we talking, when you say multi million dollar, you know, we're talking like tens of millions of dollars. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

Millions of dollars. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. So that's the size and the scale of this thing. But really, probably what's more important in the long term thing of it is the big importance of this to the church. Right. That's something that's probably harder to measure. But I hear all three of you say that this was an important thing in your life and it certainly was for me. And, and I'm hoping it was for Duncan, my, my 16 year old son. And so, and we won't know that, right? None of these kids, we won't know how important this was to them 30, 40 years ago until they're doing, you know, their pastors or deacons or, or members of congregations or, you know, president or vice president, United States, whatever, whatever it comes down to.

If I can just share a real fun story kind of related to that. I was at a training earlier last week with one of the team leaders last cycle and he and I were sitting next to Marissa, who was in charge of fun for leaders and working on discernment. Right. And so he was like, do we have a discernment retreat for young people? Because I've got five to seven high school students who attended the gathering who are now considering seminary. Right? So like there are moments when you see this direct impact and then like, you're right, Ben. Like there are moments where it's like the seed has been planted, and we may never, ever see the fruit of that seed. So it's fun to kind of think about the different ways this ministry impacts our young people and adults. I mean, I think this also impacts adults just as much as it does young people.

Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Because you have to drag those adults along to. To tend to those kids. Right.

Well, and since, you know, once the service component got added, you know, I remember I had already attended a gathering by this point, but. No, that's not true. I'm sorry. When I was in my internship, while I was in seminary, you know, it was a gathering year, and someone in my congregation in leadership, I don't remember if it was one of the pastors or one of the youth workers or who it was, said, no, we're not going to the gathering. We're going to do a mission trip rather than send our kids off to do a big party and spend thousands of dollars on it. That was just their opinion and their perspective. And I've heard that at times. And I know that there are, you know, counter narratives to that. But where I'm going is that since the service component was added to the gathering back in the early 2000s, after Katrina, Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, I think that kind of shifted some folks perspective on the. On the function of the gathering. And then in my own senate in Lower Susquehanna, because we have a partnership with a nonprofit called Lutheran Hands that started adding a service component to their travel for our synod ahead of the gathering. For those congregations that wanted to participate, it gave them an opportunity to, you know, do a service trip and attend the gathering all in one longer, longer chunk. And to the point where we had more adults in our delegates to the gathering this year than we had young people, because there were a number of parents that really wanted to be involved in those service aspects.

And who doesn't want to be in New Orleans in July?

Yeah, it's the best time to go.

It is truly.

My son bought an umbrella and he left it in his hotel room. It was his one souvenir he bought. So, yeah, that was fun. So we talked a little bit. We've mentioned MILE and Table as. So those are preliminary events. They've gone on for a while that are for specific groups. Right. Do you want to talk about those and how they function?

Yeah.

So we have mile, the Multicultural Youth Leadership event, and the Table, which is a pre event for youth living with a wide range of physical, cognitive, and mental disabilities. And so these pre events kind of started as a Way to gather these specific communities before they kind of go into this larger space, which is the gathering. And so MILE still today is the largest gathering of people of color in the elca. So that's pretty cool to see all the different ethnic groups kind of represented. And so that's Mile. The table this last cycle was actually the largest table event that we've had in its history, which was super exciting for our team. And so typically for the table, it's a chance for youth to kind of come together and meet others just like them, and then for their caregivers to also have a time to kind of have that networking piece and kind of be able to just rest and kind of have this time to see the church in action. And so these are two pre events that are super important to the overall identity of the gathering.

Yeah, it's refreshing to see that. I think we struggle with how we perceive folks that are different from our core of what we see the church. It's hard to. On a congregation by congregation basis. It's very hard to provide programs for an individual without, you know, feeling like you're setting them apart when you're trying to provide something. And to have something this large and engaging is. Is really refreshing. You know, even though it's been around for a long time, it's good to be reminded that it happens.

So those happen in advance of the primary gathering, and then also the participants in these events funnel into the main gathering. Is that what I'm hearing you say?

Right. Yeah. So they start about three days before the gathering, and so they meet kind of separately, and then they'll meet up with their congregation at the start of the gathering and then flow through gathering programming as a congregation.

And approximately how many folks attend MILE and the Table just in recent years?

Yeah, I believe we were 5.

95.

595 per mile. And I want to say like 76 for the table. 72 in the 70s.

Okay.

I'm not the number person. Beth is the number person.

72. 72.

72.

And then this year, there was a young adult program as well. Was that new? It sounded like it was brand new.

Yeah. So it was actually really cool how it kind of came about. The former director of the gathering, Tammy Jones west, and I, were at the extravaganza, and we wanted to have a conversation with the young adult ministry team at Churchwide, because we had this idea because the gathering was canceled. There was a whole kind of generation that did not get to experience the gathering. And we know both Tammy and I were the only two on staff at that time, how impactful the gathering was to us. And we were like, we have to provide something so that these kids can actually get to experience the gathering. And so we were like, well, what would it look like if the young adults kind of had their own event? And it was actually really funny because we asked them for a meeting and they were like, great. We actually wanted to meet with you guys. And so we both showed up and we were like, who should go first? And we both had the exact same idea. And so it was, I believe, 200 and, oh, gosh, 292. 292 young adults from across the country come together. And, yeah, they got to have that experience of what the gathering is. Talk about discernment, talk about what it means to be a young adult in the church in 2024. And so it was definitely a new experience for this last cycle, but it was definitely something that we felt was worth it.

And is that going to continue?

So we are continuing to reevaluate and work alongside our partners with young adult ministries to kind of see what the best plan forward is. So I can't commit to anything, but.

We'Re talking about it, right? Yeah. And I can see why it wouldn't. Why it had a singular purpose to fill in that gap. Right. Actually, when Drew Tucker was on, we talked about camps. Right. But of course, he's got that association with campus ministry as well. So when talking with him, he talked about one of his camps, what used to be Camp Luther. I think they still call it that sometimes. But it was a Finnish camp for a Finnish synod that gathered there every summer. The whole synod would gather there because they were not geographic. And so they gathered on Lake Erie and would have this week or two weeks, maybe even a month, that they would gather as a community in this one place. And these gather. You know, we talk about the youth gathering as the gathering, but even the small segments seem like that sort of thing. And I think that's something maybe the church starts to talk about in the future of having a place or places where groups can get together without having to plan the whole thing out each time. But the gathering serves as one of those places temporarily, every three years, right?

Yeah. I mean, it's like I said earlier, it's the largest gathering of people of color, often the largest gathering of people with a wide range of abilities. It's the largest thing the church does. It's a time that our partners are all kind of in one space. So it is. It kind of does act as that.

Yeah. Right. So the programming that goes in here, I think this is sort of like the things that plant the seeds that we're growing. Right. As we talked about the importance of this long term, I wanted to talk about band speakers and activities that go on. Let's start with the activities we already talked a little bit about. I forget the name that we have for the service activities. It's the Partnering Accompaniment. Accompaniment Day. Yeah. What's the history of that and what does it do?

Yeah. So we talked earlier about how the Gathering has been around for a while. Right. In 2009 was when the gathering had moved into these three specific program days. And that's changed a little bit each cycle. But Accompaniment Day, which at one point in time was called Service Learning, Synod Day and Interactive Learning. Right. So the idea there with accompaniment is, is we're coming into the city and we don't want to just come in and. And be a burden on the city and just come and leave. Right. Like, how can we engage with the city? How can we help the city? How can we help leave a mark? And so we have a team of people who worked tirelessly, working with hundreds of partners. Right. Like we, we already said 207 accompaniment sites and talking about, not just like saying, hey, we want to come in. What can we do? It was more of a conversation of, of what is it that. That you do in the city and how can we help you further your mission. Right. So for some that was learning about the culture and learning about, you know, you have second line bands. Well, what is the history of that? How. How is that part of, of the system and, and building relationships, which is why it's called accompaniment. And a great story that we have heard from that is, is that there is a band in New Orleans that came and spoke that have young people in their band. They're the band members. And one of them wanted to go and learn about how to take care of instruments. Well, the best place to do that was up in Minnesota. But they didn't. They need. They would need housing and whatnot. Well, wouldn't you know, one of the groups that went and learned about this band is from the city in Minnesota where this school is. And so we've partnered them together. So it's not just even building that relationship in New Orleans. They've now literally taken that home and are sharing that with each other. And how much of great impact is that of how our connections, right. Like God has knit us together as people and how we care for each other. So it's accompaniment. Synod day is, is where the synods, you know, some synods are small, right. Geographically. So they see each other on a more likely basis possibly. And other synods are vast and gives a chance for those synods to come together to gather to engage with each other and have worship, maybe even have their bishop speak. Because of our lower numbers, we tweaked it and it became region worship. And so got to see even more people from around their area of the country. And then interactive learning, like Jess said earlier, is that space and convention center where participants have the opportunity to engage with church wide ministry opportunities like Lutheran World Federation, World Hunger, the different multicultural communities that we have in the elcibility, as well as some other community, some other partners that are outside the ELCA, that align with the ELCA's values. Right. So that they can see. Because some people don't have that opportunity to ever engage with these partners and these, these organizations. And so just to even share space with them and possibly just engage, even if it's a five minute conversation like, oh, I never thought that I could do that or that's hitting my heartstrings and I want to know how I can help immigrants in a part of the world that I don't come in contact with usually.

Sure. Now, synod day, region day as it sort of turns into, my son sends me a text, actually sent me several texts that day. One of them was, dad, I met a bishop. Right. And it was Bishop Don Criss from our synod. And he was so amazed that he met a bishop. And where else are you going to do that for a kid, you know?

Right.

Unless your church has the bishop over, which may not be the best thing sometimes. But the second one was dad, we just had communion with the entire gathering and he thought it was amazing that this room. And it wasn't the whole gathering, it was just the synod or just the region. And I said, oh wait, just wait, you're gonna have communion with the entire gathering. And trust me, it's bigger than this. And of course, his mind was blown Saturday morning. Yeah, I think that was when bishop communion. Yeah. So it was the impact of these things on the kids is even though it's that smaller thing, it's more intimate and gives a touch point with people they're gonna see again. Hopefully.

Yeah. And another aspect of each of those, and even when we talk about the speakers and the bands, is that we want the youth to see themselves in these people as well as encounter people who are different from them. And that's A fine line to walk. And sometimes that's really hard. And sometimes it's almost a little bit too polarizing for people. And some. And. And that swings each cycle. Some. Some years there's big swings in that. Some years it's a lot closer. But to. To really engage with people who are like you. Right. Like that maybe worship the same style at church that you do, as well as. Oh, let me introduce you to some other worship styles that you maybe wouldn't. Would connect with, but you've never done because that's not the style at your home church.

Well. And certainly worshiping in an arena with your 16,000 closest friends is not going to be something that you'll be able to do at home very often.

Right? Exactly. Well, and even in region worships, I mean, and part of the decision to do region worships was because our sin in numbers were looking, you know, they were ranging from 2 to 300 and then which for some. A lot of our churches. Right. That's still larger than what is a normal worship service, but it was like we want them to have that larger worship before that massive worship experience. So. Yeah, really exciting.

Yeah. So bands. I remember back in the day, it was basically one band. It would be, you know, Jay beach or it would be Dakota Road or I think Lost and Found was the main. It didn't seem like there was one main band this year.

Yeah. So, I mean, this kind of goes back to somewhat of the lovers that Jess was talking about. Right. Like, we listen to the youth and get their ideas of who they're listening to, and then we also have to see what is. Who's out there and available. And the.

So Taylor Swift wasn't available?

No. You know what?

Oh, listen, we tried. I. I tried to donate my entire budget to get Taylor, but just didn't work. She was.

Gave you two seats in Indianapolis, right?

Yeah.

Right. And so. And I mean, and the reality is also, we came out of the pandemic like, right. Like, artists were having to make up money that they lost. So prices for a lot of them were higher, fewer participants. So that kind of levers it. And we decided, you know what, let's put together a house band with some great artists from across the country. And so that was a lever we chose to pull. Don't know what 27 is going to look like. Right. It's all what's out there in the market and what our budget can hold and. Yeah, well.

But so, so on that, though, you ended up with a wider diversity of music. Right. And so There was a lot of value in that, that how did you decide what bands and what styles you're going for and that sort of thing. Did any of these. Were these bands connected in some way? Were they part of the same publishing house or something like that? No, no.

A lot of times it ends up looking at. You look at tour dates, right. So you look at where people are moving through. Right. And so a lot of times you can add on a day as they travel through a city or finish up near a city. Right. So it's just like very interesting music world of making sure that they hit our budgetary desires and then starting working with, you know, you do the list of like, here's our top 10, here's ones that are like not touring or that's their off season, so they're automatically off. And then you start working with those who are available and then hit the category of who we're looking for. Kind of like, I mean, because I really. When you think about the, the bands we did have, like, there was definitely intention behind picking them. They definitely brought a different demographic for each one of them and their stories. I think that's an important to think about the stories from each of the artists perspectives too. So it's.

Yeah, we talked about, we talked about the hymnal a couple episodes ago now I think. How do you go about determining whether they're going to be Lutheran enough? Is that a factor? You know, we talk about a lot of praise music that, that has this top down thing that we as Lutherans don't see. Right. It's not. What's the phrase we're using? Boyfriend? Jesus. Right. That sort of thing. How do you go about determining that? Or is there a team that. That does that? I imagine that you guys don't make those decisions.

Yeah.

So our mass gathering team takes that. They have a whole group of folks that kind of looks at again like it goes back to interactive learning like Beth talked about. Like we invite partners who aren't necessarily elca. Right. But if they align to the values of the ELCA and the values we have for the gathering, then that's kind of like our litmus test that says, yeah, they would be a great group to represent, you know, Christianity, Lutheranism at the gathering. And so we do vetting for each one of the bands. So they may not be Lutheran per se, but their values align with ours.

What about the speakers? Is it a similar conversation then in terms of how you go about finding speakers for the event?

Yeah, it, it is. And one of the things that is also a factor in that is, is the cost for how much time they speak. Right. Like when I went, speakers spoke for like 30 minutes. Well, youth don't have that kind of attention span. Right. So basically we had several. So we kind of did more like Ted talks. Right. Like, so they were more like five, ten minutes with our bigger speakers being 15 minutes. Right. And so then. But we're also paying to bring them in. Right. Like, and, and managing that lever of like how many speakers can the budget afford? What is the time frame? Like, are we going to shorten? Are we going to lengthen? And, and who can we get for those prices? And still trying to get some big name speakers yet people who we know can speak authentically about the daily themes. Because that was a big value of ours this cycle was just making sure that everybody who was on stage spoke their story very authentically.

Yeah. So each of the speakers were invited in and considered based on daily themes. That was a big part of, of that puzzle piece when you think about speakers. Right. And so often in the current structure. Right. You don't hear much about the daily themes until you get to mass gathering. And so that team really takes to heart what that means and like weaves the story of the daily theme along with the Bible verse connected to each one of those days. And so they look at those components first and then start to work in all the different factors of selecting speakers.

I attended a gathering myself since the last one before the pandemic, but I remember at, at that one, which I guess would have been what, 2018, is that right? That one had a number of speakers who were, you know, kind of typical Lutherans, which was really cool for, for these kids in that case to then be meeting people like them, you know, or like their parents or like one of their teachers or somebody else in their community. So you've got people that were coming in to speak about, whether it was personal stories or ministries that they were a part of or, you know, movements that, that they had founded or become connected with, you know, in addition to, then you've got, you know, some, you know, one who's, who's more well known, whether it's, you know, in the, in the Lutheran church or outside of it. But is, is that something that has still continued in, in more recent gatherings?

Yep, absolutely. The majority of our speakers were from the Lutheran background, if you will. So.

And I would add that in reading through our evaluations, those are often the speakers that our young people connect to the most. They're the ones like the Drew Tucker or Jacqueline Bussey, like Michael Chan, like, they are the ones that people are lifting up in their evaluation saying, like, that they connected the most to those people. And so that's kind of cool to see that they're the local Lutheran that we're tossing up on stage.

Right?

Yeah. Yeah. A note that I, that I made here was that, well, Tony Campalo died just, just recently, and he was a big part of past gatherings. And I know I met him in Dallas, and his passing was definitely noted in the ELCA by adults who met him or, you know, heard him speak, you know, many, many times at gathering. Are there, are there any other people that are. That have been to many gatherings now and spoken that have sort of made their name as a. As a gathering speaker? I know he's not famous for that, but we know him, I think, mostly because of that in the Lutheran Church.

I think that people in the Lutheran Church like to remember that Martin Luther King Jr. Was a speaker back before our predecessor bodies. He was like, in 61. I think I remember Desmond Tutu being a speaker at a gathering I went to. I know Nadia Bolz Weber has been a formative person that some have heard. We've had Donald Miller, Shane Claiborne, Maya Angelou, like, I mean, so we've had some.

Even Jimmy Carter was that 1985. So before the ELCA.

But sure, sure. So we've got a tradition of having some pretty notable people that speak at the gathering. And it's not like they're going to. They're not going to sell a lot of books to teenagers. They're not going to be getting votes. Jimmy Carter isn't getting a bunch of votes for a governor in Georgia from the youth gathering, for sure. And he certainly wasn't Lutheran. Right. He very strongly Baptist there. Oh, let's see. So we talked about the budget funding. When we talked with campus ministry, we were surprised that the ELCA has such a small budget for that. And that's kind of a talking point there. Certainly there's a lot of funding in many ways from the church for the youth gathering. I know our registration fees go to pay for a lot of things. And honestly, the way the congregation we went with funded things, fundraising and things covered almost everything else for us. And so a lot of congregations very actively fund this trip. But, you know, on the organizational level, where does the funding come from?

Majority, 99% of the budget comes from registration fees. That is how we fund the gathering. And I think it's fun to note we were just in Minneapolis and did a listening session. And one of our team leaders made known to us that the price has only increased $125 over the last 30 years. So it's kind of amazing that the, the fee to sign up to attend this event has shifted very little compared to what other registration fees cost. I have a 14 year old who is way into club volleyball and I will spend more dollars on club volleyball than I will. And that I did on the gathering. Right. I get that the gathering is a week and club is, you know, four months, but still the amount of dollars I spend is way more. Right. For a thing that will probably end at the end of high school. Right. But I know that this impact for this one week in her life will forever live in her and will forever change her. So we had another great comment just made about like, why not spend the fine oil on our, the expensive oil on our young people, right? Like the woman spent her money for the expensive oil to anoint Jesus's feet, right? And here we are doing the same thing, like let's anoint the chill the feet of our children and you know, empower them into their faith as young people. And so, yeah, the event is, is majority covered through registration fees. We do end up getting like very little sponsorships and donations, different things like that, but the majority of that lives there. We do have a few endowments, right. Like we have a fund from Donna and a fund for Heidi and they're very specific into what they help cover scholarships. We have a fund for that as well too.

So Donna Weigel and Heidi Hegstrom were gathering staff members previously. Donna died suddenly in the middle of a cycle. And then Heidi had moved on, moved into parish ministry and then died of cancer. And these endowments are ways to honor their legacy with the gathering.

Yeah. If a church has a hard time funding transportation and that, are there resources at the synod level? Are there people who, I guess there are point people in each synod that help with that sort of stuff. So are there resources there at the synod and regional level too then?

I would say it would depend on your synod. Like we know that there were some synods that pushed really hard financially to provide dollars to support young people attending the gathering and doing different things like that. Synod work with youth ministry has shifted drastically in the last five years. Right. So there may not be a designated youth person in every single synod, but I think that if it's an important ministry of our synods, that there is usually fundraising and dollars available for our congregations.

And I think what we Found was that congregations that. That have aged to not have children in their congregations anymore still want to support the youth, even if they don't go to their particular church. And sometimes they may want to see them and have them have them give a presentation or something. But that's a small price to pay.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's really fun to think about the possibility of that. Like the matchmaking that could happen within synod, within congregations within synods, for those that know the impact of the gathering and may have extra dollars to help young people get there.

Okay, so we. Future events. So we talked about the. The planning going out 10 years, perhaps, maybe. Maybe even longer. How so? Minneapolis, 2027. Right. Do we have dates for that yet?

Yeah, the dates are June 28th through July 2nd.

And is there. Has a theme been announced?

No, that will be the fun that we get to be a part of the spring. We'll pull together a group of young people, people connected to the teams, and start dreaming and planning. And we'll spend probably about 48 hours together and hopefully walk away from that moment with a theme, daily themes, and then some Bible stories that are associated with that too. And then the team takes all that information, sends it and creates graphics and all like, this is where Justin shines, and he takes this and makes the words come alive visually for us. And so we're hoping to launch the theme. It'll be later into 25, maybe the beginning of 26. So.

So at this stage, even you don't know what the theme is yet?

Nope, not yet.

Yeah, that's probably.

I'm sure. But it's also really exciting for other people to hear that.

Wow.

So it's. It really does have that sort of organic feel to it as this thing comes about. That's really cool.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're excited about it.

Yeah, I would say it's definitely. It's a cool experience to be a part of coming up with the theme, but it's like, what do our young people need to know right now for the 28, 24 theme discernment? Like, the team came together and it just magically happened and we were done before. Like, I remember we met in Minneapolis and we went to Mall of America and just kind of hung out for the rest of the time because we had already come up with a theme, the daily themes, everything. And it was because, like, post pandemic, we, like, our young people, knew that this is what they wanted to focus on. They knew that they wanted to talk about how they were created and Then like, the daily themes were just all, like, it just came so organically, and it was a really cool experience to be a part of.

So we've talked about the event, and it's sort of how it can be. It can just sort of fall off at the end of that and sort of trying to bridge that to some other resources. We used to have at least an LYO Lutheran Youth Organization, and before that, Luther League for the. For the prior. Prior organizations. LYO doesn't exist anymore. Is that. Is that true? I don't. I honestly, I haven't. I haven't looked for it real hard.

I mean, Beth, I'll start quick, and then if you want to add some pieces. And I think not officially. Right. I think it's still bones of it. Pieces of it might live within synods. But I think what's exciting for us, which is maybe connected to this and not even connected to this, is some of the new ideas that we have, like I said earlier, working with Aaron Chopin, the program coordinator for youth ministry, is this idea of what happens in the in between. And so we have worked to some cure, some. Some grant funding that might help support this idea of gathering popups. What the name will be, we don't know. Right. But, like, we're going to test four of these events in 2025 to see can we create some excitement, can we keep the momentum going? How do we help our congregations, our synods, live out youth ministry in a way that maybe they haven't been able to do because of the lack of funding or the lack of staffing. So it's this idea of the in between, but then also kind of create these experiences for our young people to have in between the gatherings. This is kind of also how the birth of Gathering Remix came to be. As we were getting ready to plan for 2024, we realized an entire generation, right, didn't experience a gathering in 2122. So that meant that when those high schoolers came home, there was no one to get excited. The middle schoolers. And so we talked often about how do we create this excitement for the high school students and also our middle schoolers. And so the Gathering Remix curriculum was really birthed out of trying to make that connection easier for our high school students to say, wow, this was amazing. I loved X, Y and Z. Hey, come check out this curriculum. You can see the speaker that impacted me the most, or you can connect to the ministry at Churchwide that impacted me the most. And so it was that space to create conversation, Bible study. So that's kind of this interesting shift I think we're making of, like, new strategies and new initiatives that we're working through. So it may not be LYO or Luther League or something formal like that, but we're really trying to work strategically amongst all the different partners that we have kind of connected to youth ministry. So connecting more with camps or campus ministry even. We're talking with the young adult team about this pathway and into children's ministry. How do we help our young people move through this pathway? It may lead to ordination, but it may lead to, you know, Lutheran services, different areas of ministry for our young people. So it's an answer. It's not an answer, but.

Well, and like, LYO has changed. Right. Like, it has changed even drastically since I was a youth minister in a congregation 20 years ago.

Right.

Like down here in Houston, it used to be Wednesday nights and Sundays were your church days. Well, that's not the case anymore. Right. And I think that, that LYO on more of the, the national level was still just bringing together the leaders of the lyo. And so, you know, some, some synods and regions still have gatherings. Like, I know there's a Western states gathering that is still going strong, but some synods have not. Like, the interest there has, has diminished some. And so we're excited about the potential of these pop ups. Like. Right. Like, part of the goal is to, to kind of help keep the gathering from being such a strong high mountaintop. And like, oh, we're going to come up onto this mountaintop and then we don't have to go back to this. Our congregations or our sinners that don't do anything like, oh, there's some other opportunities, so it's not so deep and it helps build and lead us back to that larger gathering.

Yeah, there used to be that, that sort of climb up the mountain. You'd have your synod gathering one year and then your regional gathering and then, and then national. So everybody got at least, you know, we'd get four of those three things. Right. You'd get, if you were lucky, you got two national gatherings instead of, you know, two regional gatherings or Senate gatherings. But I'll tell you, in Ohio, the synod gatherings were phenomenal. We went to two every year in Cleveland and Columbus or southern Ohio. So always, always a blast. But of course, completely different scale.

Right.

A hotel versus a city.

Absolutely right. And I think for us, too, it creates a, it may eliminate that accessibility barrier, which is, I think, is often a hard time for some of our congregations who come from the corners of the country to try and get central plane tickets are expensive. Buses tripled from 18. Like, we just know that our world is more expensive. And so we've been really trying to really think about what does that mean as we think about planning for all the different types of events that we're. We're wondering about.

Yeah. And then I guess I think our last question is getting people involved. There are a lot of folks who do not have youth that are not escorting groups, you know, helping carry their bags for the. The youth that are the focus of that, of that event. What are ways that they can get involved? You know, can we contribute money to certain funds, those endowments? What are the ways we can do that?

Yeah, there's a lot of different ways. One being just encouraging their local congregation to send a group of kids to the gathering, can help with fundraisers. They can volunteer. So we'll have volunteer applications open up. I don't. I can't remember when, but so that they can volunteer on site, apply for a planning team. Those will open up this next summer. Kind of how to. Or what teams apply to be on a team that then leads the gathering. And so those applications will go open next summer. And so those are some ways donating if they have the financial means. On our website, ELCA.org gathering like Beth said earlier, the Heidi Hagstrom and Donna Weigel funds. And then we also have a fund for mile, the Multicultural Youth Leadership event, and just overall general ministry fund. But if you can't do any of those. We accept your prayers and your ideas and your thoughts as we kind of lead and ramp up for 2027.

Always important. Always important.

Yes.

Is there anything that you guys that we have not asked that you think folks would want to know about the gathering? Whether that's a great big thing or just a little detail or a fun fact, whatever.

I would say the youth gathering is one of. It's becoming an event that is very adaptable because our youth are changing so quickly. And so for some of us who have been involved for a long time as adults, there might be times that we have to step back and say, oh, wait, this is for the youth, or this change has been done because this is in for the benefit of the youth. There are sometimes we have some great adults who give their time and their energy to come with youth. And sometimes some of them are like, well, we used to. Well, yes, the world was a lot different there, but it's. I mean, it's exciting to see where the, where this event is. Going and the changes that are maybe in the future.

All right, well, thank you, all of you for taking time to be with us today and share out of your experience and history and knowledge. We really appreciate it. I think the youth gathering is something that's truly unique to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. And it's something that so many of our members have experienced in their lives or, or heard about or sent their own kids to, etc. And so having an episode around that has really been great. We appreciate it.

Thanks for having us.

Absolutely. Thank you for the time today.

Okay, so having spent time with the three of them and listened, you know, the, the youth gathering is one of those things because it's a huge event. You know, it's a big deal. You know that it takes a lot of time. But listening to them just talking about how their full time jobs, and not just for, you know, one year or even between gatherings, just full time jobs, are planning the national youth gathering, three of them, and then they contract any number of others for shorter terms along the way. That's.

And then, and then piles and piles of volunteers.

Yeah. Yeah. That's really amazing. Just the, the sheer amount of work that it is, which again, you kind of know that, but it's different to hear it from people that have done it.

Yeah, but it's also, it's sort of like on the scale of. Well, you know, I planned, you know, I. Well, a few weeks ago I planned a dinner for the people I work with. Right. And so the scale of that to, you know, to, to a synod event or something is, is like a synod event to the, the ELCA event.

Yeah.

And probably similar. I haven't experienced a churchwide assembly and I'd imagine the scale there is probably that same sort of thing. But. Yeah, it's. It's amazing. And I mentioned my son, his experience of the regional. The regional communion versus the churchwide communion and how mind blowing it is. Yeah, it's. It's something else. Yeah. These folks work really hard. It's pretty obvious from that.

Yeah. And. And the event really is foundational and formational. You know, I shared in the interview the perspective of some leaders who would say that it's a big party. Why would you spend money sending kids to that? But it's, but it is, it is a party, but it is also so much more than that. And so the, the impact that that sort of an event, you know, like a mission trip can have on a young person in community, with their peers, from their own congregation. Plus then you Know, connecting up with, with new friends that they meet from, you know, literally all over the world at this sort of an event, it, it really can change you, it can change the different direction of your life to give you a sense of calling, perhaps even calling the ministry, whatever it might be. But it can really have a lifelong impact on a young person at a formational time.

And I think the way the event is structured now, I think there is. Well, there's a lot less time for those party nights. I don't remember doing parties when we went to Dallas, but our group went outside the event a few times to do other things like a Texas Rangers game. But in Atlanta, I remember just people piled into the hotels and there was a lot of room for that. But we watched the video on YouTube, the live stream, and when they were announcing where the party hotel things would be, where the late night stuff was going to be, the time had already started for those things to start and they were going to be ending fairly soon and those kids would still would have to get to the hotels in order to do that. So. So the focus on those parties is, I think, much less. Right. But also just talking to the kids, they were so worn out, they didn't have time or they didn't have. They needed to get to sleep because they were so worn out from doing all the things they did.

Right.

And so I think while we still have elements of that, it would take a very, it would have to be somebody's priority to be in that party space to do that. So.

And honestly, I think that, you know, the vast majority of people, even if they went to the event like that, would feel that they had missed out on, on so much by just focusing on the entertainment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which you know, you could do anywhere, right?

All right, well, so catechism, question wise, our last episode we talked about Advent and the question was, as we anticipate, the Youth gathering for 2027, where will it be held? And the correct answer was Minneapolis. But we kept the mini part in there with Orlando and Pasadena and bounced it back to New Orleans because that's where it was in the past. So Minneapolis was our correct answer. There should be good traveling for many, many people since I think the bulk of our, our youth that attend the gathering are from Minnesota and Wisconsin and Iowa and the Dakotas. So that'll be nice. Save some folks some money there.

Well, this episode's question is also related to today's topic. It is a quote from First Timothy, chapter 4, verse 12, in which Paul writes, let no one despise your blank, but set the believers an example in speech and conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. The options for filling in the blank are let no one despise your character, your youth, your droll little mouth or your piety. And you can respond to that question to our email, to our social media, to our phone number, all of which are available in the episode notes.

Yeah, and lots of links in the episode notes. Lots of good stuff there. All right. Main Street Lutherans is hosted by Keith Fair. That's you and me, Ben Fot. And the show is produced by Phote Media Productions. You can get all our contact information, links to our socials and. And other things, and a transcript in the episode notes. Until next time. Time, go in peace, serve the Lord. And thank you to our gathering staff.

Absolutely. And thanks be to God.