This is Keith, and this is Ben, and this is Main Street Lutherans. Today we've got a really interesting guest. One of our listeners pointed us back to a Reddit post by Justin Marquis. Justin went on a trip across the sort of the upper Midwest, the Great Lakes region, a little bit beyond that, in sort of a, I don't know what you call it, an epic journey. One of his principal things was to try to stop at a Lutheran church if he was near when on a Sunday, and they stuck to bike trails like Rails to Trails segments. And so he wrote a bit about this on Reddit. He actually announced that he was doing this on Reddit and asked for people that might have churches he could stop at and make arrangements and for places to stay, for that matter. We'll hear more about that here in a little bit. But part of it was also, well, as he says, as he says later on, part of it was to experience some churches, to discern his call to ministry. And it's quite an interesting discernment process that he goes through there, and I think you'll appreciate that. But that whole discernment idea has kind of struck some stuff with me. I'm in some transitions. We talked a little bit about candidacy and things. So I started the candidacy process and admission to United Lutheran Seminary. And so that's in swing. Probably start in the spring is what we're planning on. And we've got other transitions here at home. I just came back from a weekend with Santa Claus. I attend the Santa School in Midland, Michigan. It's known as the Harvard of Santa schools. If you want to see what it looks like, you can go on YouTube and search for Harvard of Santa schools and you'll find this thing. And it's pretty wild. Lots of singing Christmas carols in October. And we're also in a weird position. At my day job at Greenfield Village, we have our Halloween program, which runs four nights a week. And I am in charge of a team that takes candles out of pumpkins on Sunday nights and makes sure that the rest of the week that the candles stay lit, they're electric. And so it doesn't take as much as it used to when they were wax candles. But it's still an effort that, that we do about 900.

Still a lot of candles.

It is. It is. Yeah. So those are some of my transitions coming on. We're transitioning into Christmas. We just skip over November for the most part in our family.

Right? Yeah, we've certainly got some of those going on in my congregation and family as well. In fact, we have Trunk or Treat this Friday as we're recording this. It's Friday the 24th and we've been doing Trunk or Treat for, I want to say, maybe seven or eight years now. We started a little before the pandemic and it was definitely growing for us. And shortly before the pandemic, we teamed up with the City of York where we're located, and they were promoting like a multi site Trunk or Treat night for the community.

And so they also like a progressive Trunk or Treat.

I'm not sure if it's intended to be a progressive thing or not, but at least the city can then promote and kind of pull resources to, you know, make a couple of bigger and badder sites rather than just, you know, everybody and their grandma having their own. And the idea being that, you know, it provides a larger option for more people to participate in trick or treating in a safe way. And so, yeah, so we're one of, I think it's four locations in the city again this year. And just on our own the last couple of years, we've been getting about a thousand kids walking through with their families for candy. And we've already. And I was, I have to say that personally, the last year or two, I've been thinking we need to make this thing shorter.

Well.

Now that we're doing this with the city, we don't have any choice over the time constraints and it's actually longer, so I have no idea how many people might show up. We have a decent number of cars signed up, we get a dj, we give out food of our own, we give out hot dogs and drinks and chips. But in addition to that free stuff, we're also going to have a couple of food trucks on site. And it really is a big deal and a lot of fun, but it's a lot of work. So, you know, we're looking forward to that. That'll be a good time.

That's literal outreach right there.

Absolutely. Yeah. And that's partly what makes us, you know, it's what the part of the reason why it's such a big deal for us is because we've got a, we've got a relationship in the community to build on with our youth center and our outreach ministries. So, you know, when, when those kind of sub programs begin spreading the word that St. Matthew's doing a trick or treat, that that word gets shared very deeply into the neighborhood and the immediate surrounding community. So that's probably why we get such a fantastic response to some of this stuff. Because we've got that history with the community. So. Yeah, so that's coming up this Friday. And then yesterday, October 19, we had a vote by the St. Matthew congregation to call me as the next lead pastor of St. Matthew Lutheran Church. So that was a positive vote. The call was extended, and I accepted on the spot. And so that's. That's now happened. Right.

So now do you change offices?

I will eventually. The lead pastor's office is actually in the process of being painted, and we're changing out some of the furnishings. I actually went out and selected a new desk today, so. Yeah. But probably, I'm guessing by the end of the month, I'll be moved into that. That office. I'm kind of hoping to have the office, like, really be moved in and settled in and set up so that when the installation service happens as part of the reception, I can kind of have the office open. It's sort of an open house. Not that I'd be in there, but people can kind of come breeze through and just sort of see the. See the space, see how it's changed. So cool.

Well, I'm proud of you. Congratulations.

Thank you. It's been a long journey. I mean, I've been at St. Matthew 15 years as the associate pastor, and, you know, Kevin Shively and I started talking about this possibility and actively working on it with support of the council and the bishop's office and colleagues more than a few years ago. And so to see all of that actually come to fruition is. It is pretty cool. It really is. It's. It's. It's a combination of trusting in God and also putting in the work from a human standpoint. And neither one of those alone. We're gonna make this happen. So. Yeah, that was. That was really cool.

And that reminds me of what it takes to ride a bicycle for hundreds of miles.

Absolutely. Yeah.

So here we go. Justin Markey. So today we've got Justin Marquis, who has a blog called Dionysus on a Bike. Blog. Well, that's the blog. And Justin made a trek across several parts of the Midwest on a bike and learned a lot about our church as he posted to Reddit. Thanks for joining us here, Justin.

Yeah, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.

So tell us about yourself. What leads you into this big trek over the course of the summer?

Well, I love bikes. That's probably the first thing to get out of the way. Bikes have been an obsession of mine pretty much since I started grad school in Chicago. It's now been 20 years, which makes me feel really old. But I moved to Chicago to get away from car life and I thought I was just going to be using public transit the whole time I was there and quickly learned that the way to see Chicago is by bike. And basically from that point on, my life has been an ever expanding use and enjoyment of the bicycle. Prior to my return to the church, which I guess we're going to get into later, I went through a pretty dark time. And it was riding bikes long distances by myself and using that as a time to reflect, get closer to nature, meditate, and looking back, pray, I realized that got me out of that really dark time. And since then bikes have just become this really joyful part of my everyday life. So it was really natural for me when I had the opportunity to. To set other things aside and just get on my bike all summer.

Yeah. And you said 20 years, right? Since grad school. So you've had a life, you've lived some lives between now and then. You're not a 20 something that's just gotten out of school and grabbed a bike, putting off the real world, if you will. So what's your background before all that?

So I got into philosophy. I actually started undergrad thinking that I was going to go to divinity school. I thought I felt the call to ordain ministry at a really young age, but I scared myself away from church. I went full on biblical, literalist, fundamentalist, beat people over the head with scripture and lots of other things that went with it. And that evaluative cognitive dissonance that that created in me just scared me away from the church altogether. And I turned to philosophy and started studying that academically because the, the goal of living an excellent human life was a constant through all of that. And philosophy was where I thought I could at best one, get mentorship and then follow that call that I felt to share that with others. So I was in academic philosophy through grad school and then taught philosophy at university before I left academia. And I've done a bunch of other stuff since. But yeah, yeah, we've had as many jobs as you can count.

I hear you. Our lives match up quite a bit, I think. Just a few different turns there.

Right. Justin, can I ask what was your church background growing up? What, the denomination or tradition?

Yeah, I grew up United Methodist in an actually great congregation. I, the pastor there when I was a kid was a really positive influence in my life. But I went to church camp at a Methodist church camp and decided there that I was going to read the Bible cover to cover and believe everything I read. And this is the naivete of a 12 year old. And this is pre Internet. That kind of also dates me a little bit. And for a curious, bookish kid who wanted to know more and more about what he was reading, radio preachers in Indiana became sort of my source for other perspectives than I was getting at my home Methodist church. And radio preaching in the 90s in Indiana skewed extremely conservative, both theologically and politically. And so I.

So was Mike Pence one of those. That's sort of the space he was in, right?

I think that was the space he was in. I don't know. Mike Pence came a little bit after my time in that, in those circles, but yeah, that's the general vibe. But a lot of moody Bible radio was piped through those, those channels, that kind of thing. So I, I went full on Calvinist Baptist at a non denominational church centered on Purdue's campus. And that's where that cognitive evaluative dissonance from the values I was raised with came to a head with those, those fundamentalist conservative values. And I just said I can't do this anymore and walked away from all forms of church. I didn't really look back to the Methodism I grew up in with because sort of everything having to do with the gospel or really theism at all was tainted by something that I saw as really destructive.

Wow. Yeah. And so without, without shortcutting the personal reflection and growth. And you talked about a dark time as well. Like roughly how long were you quote, out of the church?

22 years, I think, between worship services that were not weddings or funerals.

Okay. Okay.

So part of your story leads you into becoming an office assistant at a church in Chicago, right?

Yeah.

So are you attending church when that happens or is this just a job?

So this is just a job like I was talking to you about before we started recording. I was a bartender when the pandemic hit and I was on unemployment, I think for two years. I mean the, the unemployment for service workers was pretty extensive.

Oh sure.

When we were social distancing and when I, when it was time to get a job again, I didn't really want to go back to bartending just because I didn't want to stay up till one in the morning on a work night. Was done with that. And I found pretty quickly that people with grad degrees in philosophy are not in high demand in this economy.

Surprise.

Yeah, it shocked me. And so I was just really applying. We lived in Chicago at the time. And I was just applying to everything, and I forgot who I sent my resume to by the time I started getting callbacks. And one of those. One of the first callbacks that looked promising was a Lutheran church. And I honestly don't remember sending them my resume. I'm sure I did, but I don't remember it.

The Holy Spirit sometimes works in the email.

Yeah, right.

I don't know how the Holy Spirit got my password, but I'll roll with it. And I was really skeptical about that job because of my past with. With Christianity. But I was also really desperate for a job, so I decided to take it. I did, you know, a little background research. I knew virtually nothing about Lutheranism more than the historical, So I didn't know about differences in Lutheranism in America. So I did a little research about this particular congregation, and I realized that I wasn't gonna have some real fundamental conflicts with their values. So I said, you know, I can. I can appear respectable enough for an office job in a church. And pretty much right away, I realized that I was much more welcome there and accepted for who I am there than I ever would have thought. And a few things led to another. And by four months into my employment there, I shifted my schedule so I could worship with them on. On Sundays.

Wow.

Now at the same time, you're working at a bike shop. Right?

That was. So the bike thing is actually my own business.

I was running your business. Okay.

Yeah, I was running a bike restoration and repair business out of my apartment. I was kind of juggling three jobs in Chicago. Another reason to take an extended break for a bike tour. Get a break from the job. Juggling.

Right. So can you tell us a little bit about the congregation you were working at? Like, how big is it? Was it several people on the office staff? Was it pretty much you and the pastor?

It was. The pastor is the only full time staff there. And then the other part timers were the music director, the bookkeeper slash custodian, and I were all halftime. So, yeah, there were four of us at staff meeting. And we all had our. We all did each other's jobs. We all helped out, you know, with everything else because it was a. Definitely a congregation where there's more work than those number of positions really can. Can accomplish, and normal working hours. So.

But it's a.

The congregation is a. I would say it's a medium sized, really neighborhood congregation. And by neighborhood, I kind of mean it really draws from its radius of people who live near it.

Okay.

Northwest side of Chicago.

And how long did you work there?

I worked there for three years when I left for the bike tour.

Okay, wow. So tell us about the bike tour. What prompted. What prompted this journey in, you know, all the different metaphorical ways you can take that term?

Well, I think you mentioned my blog, and I wrote a piece that I put on my blog. I've been facing a little bit of writer's block about what to make of the tour after. But before going on the tour, I really thought of the tour as two things, primarily a protest and a pilgrimage. And I mean those both in really, really broad senses. The protest side comes from a lot of the burnout, from juggling jobs. And then my partner, who is still in the service industry, she's a cook by trade, has just faced really exploitative jobs over and over again. It's an industry that makes its living exploiting its workers. I mean, more so than average. And so we've just both really looked at how people's time is commodified. People's worthiness to participate outside of the economy is commodified. And we wanted to do something that was really outside of that as much as we could. And by kind of refusing work and putting value in things that can't be commodified, like spending time in nature, spending time with each other, spending time visiting friends, family, and churches. Those kinds of things don't come with a dollar value. And so I think those kinds of things often get devalued. And I wanted to have a chance to say, no, let's look at a different way of valuing our time and how we spend it. So that's the protest side, and then the pilgrimage side is. I've mentioned that there was a really dark time for me that bikes got me through. And it's bikes plus being out in nature. It's. It's what bikes facilitate. And was really grateful for that time in my life, and I wanted a chance to experience that space of gratitude more intentionally from a better place. And that was definitely where the bike tour really motivated me to, like, all right, let's save up the money to make this happen. Let's organize our lives so that we can make it happen, so that we can get in that place where we can set aside some of those distractions to feeling gratitude and feeling connection to things outside of ourselves.

Couple of practical questions. Did you have kids or family that you were leaving behind when you went on the bike ride?

No. It's just the two of us. No kids.

Okay. And what did you do housing wise, did you maintain a house while you were also riding bikes, or did you sell a house and put stuff in storage or what?

We were renters and one of the reasons for the timing was our lease was up and rents in Chicago are skyrocketing astronomically. And it was already at a point where we were going to have to make a change in living arrangements, regardless of whether we took time off work or not. And so it just made sense to move our stuff into storage, not maintain a residence. So in a. In a kind of technical sense, I've been homeless since May. My stuff is in my parents basement.

Yeah. I really have to commend you for, you know, seeing and planning an opportunity like this is certainly not something that just anybody could do. And so to really, to really seize on the opportunity is, as I said, it's just, it's commendable. I mean, it's not necessarily for everyone. You know, we all find our way. But the idea of making yourself homeless and committing to this kind of journey, either alone or with a partner, but still in an isolated kind of way is not something just everybody could do. So thank you for you for taking the chance.

Well, thank you for saying that. I think it was definitely the most challenging thing I've ever done, and I'm really grateful and glad that it happened. When I made work was in such a good place in my life because the challenges that I faced, you know, were not insurmountable. I was never in danger and never unsafe. But I don't think I could have handled the kinds of pressures that you face on the bike trail for five months, not being one with someone that was on the same page as me, but also just being in a place where I had community support and just being in a good place mentally and spiritually and physically. Yeah, definitely one of the most challenging things I've ever done, for sure.

So you posted about this on Reddit before you got started? Yeah. And one of the things you asked was for people to volunteer congregations, you could stop by and you declared your intention to experience, particularly Lutheran churches, ELCA churches on this trip. How did that work out as far as responses there and such? And did you ask anywhere else?

Yeah. So I both asked, asked on Reddit and also emailed churches along the route. And I have to say that we got no responses, really. I got some responses on Reddit from people who are off the bike, my bike route, and people that I would love to visit their church someday and thank them for their. Their graciousness and Hospitality offered, but the actual churches along the route that I contacted, not only did I not get no's, I really didn't get any response at all. So that was a little bit disappointing.

Yeah, sure. I'm going back to a guy that I encountered about a year and a half ago at confirmation camp. We had as camp leaders, brought in an outside speaker, a gentleman who has a motorcycle ministry. So, you know, very similar to what you're describing, only no pedaling. And he got on his motorcycle one day. He had left his job and he had, I don't know, 100 bucks in his pocket and he just started riding. And eventually he came to some town and he decided to stop and he was going to go to sleep on a, I don't know, a porch or in the woods or something. And somebody came along and they said, do you need a place to stay for that? And he said, sure. And they went and stayed in their church. And this happened over and over again. And he ended up writing for like six months and almost always having the hospitality either of the in kind gift of someone for him to camp out on their couch or in their church's, you know, youth room or whatever, or someone who offered to put him up in a, in a motel for the night. But the big caveat is that this guy comes out of a very different Christian tradition, you know, more of a charismatic or evangelical tradition where that, I don't know, it's, it's, it's less surprising for them to come across someone in that sort of situation with that sort of a need and less, and much more likely for them to respond to it. And so. Right, you're, you're pointing out one of the things that we're not so great at with, you know, as Lutherans is that sort of on the spot hospitality of, you know, one thing to welcome somebody into your worship service or even into your church picnic, but to give them a place for the night is kind of out of our comfort zone. So what did you do? How did you manage in those situations?

So we had lots of backup plans for where to stay. There's the tent that we threw on the backs of our bikes and we can just set that up anywhere along the rails to trails. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere, so you can kind of camp wherever you'd like. And then in cities there's networks of people who do bicycle touring that host one another and the community is called warm showers. And you can just, you know, find it on a map, find people who are Hosting on the map of where you're going and message them. And we spent many nights just being hosted by other cycle tourists. And then there's the occasional hotel when you just need a shower real bad. And friends and family that we stayed with on the route, so we didn't really have trouble finding places to stay. Although when I said it, this was one of the more challenging things I've ever done. Having that concern each day of where am I going to lay my head that night is. I wouldn't call it. I mean, it is a stress, but it, it is something that dominates your thoughts in a way that it wouldn't if you already know where you're staying. And so kind of all of your decision making gets oriented around where's tonight going to end, where am I going to lay my head? And I thought that was really good for me to kind of meditate on that centrality of having that security and comfort of just a place to sleep.

Yeah. And it's certainly a, you know, it's, it's clearly, of course, very different being. I don't know if you want to call it homeless by choice versus homeless by necessity or circumstance, of course, and we're not trying to make a comparison there. But, you know, I think about, I think about the term that came to mind was like bed insecurity. So you've, you know, we all know what food insecurity is. People are not sure where the next meal is going to come from. But that bed insecurity, you're describing it now, again, we've got resources and choices, but it's still that there is that question. And a question that many of us rarely, if ever have to ask. And for you to be asking of yourself every day for this extended period of time. How long? I mean, you did this ride in segments, but like, what was the longest one? How long were you on the road for?

Between places where I knew someone and had a bed, there was three weeks where there was nothing set up as far as beds ahead of time.

Okay, wow. So having accomplished this, what, and this is an odd question to put you on the spot with, but what life lessons have you come away with? You were the philosophy major. What would you say have been insights great or small that came to you through this experience?

I mean, the, the importance of hospitality and welcome, by far is the biggest lesson I've learned. A lot of things that I experienced, I expected to experience and was really grateful those things I was looking for, but I didn't expect to be so affected by Both hospitality and welcome, and then it's lack when it was lacking. One of the things that you really become really grateful for on the bike trail is just a bench on the side of the trail, place to sit down and lean your bike and get, you know, all of those burdens off while you have a drink of water and a bite to eat and just a breather. And on the bike trails, a lot of those benches come with dedications. You know, whoever gave the money to for the bench, you know, in memory of someone or whatever, and just that kind of solidified moment of hospitality that gets extended through time. That bench is going to be there for, you know, what. What's the life of a bench like, 30 years or something? So for 30 years, that one person or organization's hospitality is going to be available to people like me. And when you see the first bench in 15 miles, you're so grateful that you have that spot. Same with the churches that had meals after worship. Like, you get tired of eating gas station food when you're in a food desert. You get tired of paying restaurant prices during these inflationary times. And so when someone says, here's a burger and some homemade potato salad and some lemonade, you think, like, I've just hit the jackpot. And it's just. It's just a simple offering of food, and it makes a big difference in your day. I mean, we look back on those days where we got to share a meal with people after church, people will probably never see again, and those were some of the best days on the trail.

So I'm sure they offered to send stuff with you. Were you ever able to take it? You know, the next step, like, fill up some. Some ziploc bags and stuff. I'm curious how that would have worked out.

Well, we did have the Mount Vernon church. They did have lots of leftover hot dogs, and they wrapped so many of them in fo individually for us and sent us off with packets of condiments. And, you know, we were set for a day and a half on food from them. You know, you're limited by what you can carry on a bike.

Right.

And then in the middle of summer, keeping it cool is another thing.

Right.

So really we had to get the food that we were going to eat that day, unless it was going to be something like beef jerky or potato chips or something.

Yeah, probably not a lot of churches doing beef jerky picnics.

No, and I'm grateful for that. I had enough beef jerky from gas.

Stations, I bet, right?

Yeah. So you, you posted on Reddit before, before making the initial plan for this, and then afterwards you posted some realizations specifically about congregations. And I, I found that interesting. That's part of why we're talking at all, actually. But, but the, the whole journey is, is very interesting. But I found, you know, I think the congregations you would have run into along a bike path are going to be different than, say, if we were, you know, doing a car trip through or if we were, you know, trains. If we took Amtrak across the country and stopped at the nearest church to an Amtrak station, it'd be different there, too. But particularly, you talked a lot about the socialization or socializing after church and the meals and that and the diversity of, like, social awareness and the ministries they have. Can you speak more about what you came to realize about that?

Yeah, it just seemed like some churches knew what to do when a new face came in the door. And some churches, it seemed to me, and, you know, I could be wrong about this, but that there was, I mean, everyone was excited to see us in a positive way. So there was never any of that unwelcome. But there was a sort of a flusteredness to some of the churches as if they hadn't had seen a new face or a new younger face maybe in quite some time.

And I'm sure rural congregations, that would certainly be the case.

Yeah, I mean, some, there were several congregations where there were no children, and that, that was the hardest to see. I think, as far as seeing a church and all the ways churches can do their thing, one of the things I really love about my home church in Chicago is that there is a big Sunday school, children's Sunday school crowd. And, you know, there are a bunch of kids up there during the children's sermon. And just seeing what that means for the future of these congregations and the lack of intergenerational community in these smaller towns, that was probably the saddest thing to see.

So am I remembering from earlier conversation now. Right. That part of this, it was one of the changes that came about for you during this ride was your decision to return to that earlier call to ministry that you had as a young person. How did that happen? How did that come about? And I think it sounds like you're pursuing that in the Lutheran Church. Is that right?

Yeah. So, I mean, the call really came up as I started going back to worship at my home church where I was working in Chicago. So I started the bike tour knowing that seminary was the goal. After the bike tour, that really came up As I saw that the gospel was something that I had been really wrong about during my fundamentalist turn, was wrong about what its welcome was. I was wrong about what it meant to accept people in Christ and celebrate people in Christ and coming to the realization that I had lost what the gospel was and that what I had rejected wasn't really the gospel, I started to feel that call to be in people's lives in a really deep and vocational way surrounding that gospel. The. If it was the welcome of that church that I worked for that brought me back in on Sundays, I would say it's the sacrament that really brought me back to a life of faith. And so that connection between community and a table that is given freely by Christ, where we meet over food and drink, that is both food and drink and more than food and drink was really powerful for me. And I was like, I need. I need to do that. That's where I'm supposed to be. And I'm really grateful for the pastor that I worked for and who was also my pastor. So my boss and pastor, which is of kind. Kind of a. An interesting dual role that someone could have. But she saw that call really quickly and transformed that office admin role to more of an internship. So she added a lot of more ministry sorts of things to my job. So I got in the pulpit, I went on some site visits with her to shut ins, et cetera, and just all of that confirmed the call. Each thing that I was given to do or each way I extended what I was doing in my office admin role to something that was more. More of a ordained ministry sort of thing. I was like, yeah, this is what I was meant to do.

That's really cool. I wonder if the bike ride also maybe shaped at all. You know, if you had your druthers in this moment, what. What type of congregation you might wind up serving as a pastor?

Yeah, there's a. An American Baptist pastor in Minneapolis who I've been in contact with, who has made bikes a really big part of his ministry up there. And I mean, his is more about alternative transportation and environmental concerns, which are important to me as well. But I definitely would love to be able to make bikes a part of my ministry somehow. I don't know what that means as far as what kind of church I might be called to, but.

Now this might be blasphemy for somebody that grew up in Lafayette, but you could be the chaplain for the little 500 down in. Right?

Yeah.

I mean, if I was sent to Bloomington, I wouldn't Complain.

Yeah, they've got some good bike riding down there, for sure.

They do, yeah. That's great.

But I would say more than. More than being about bikes, what I learned is this is going back to hospitality and welcome. That because I experienced both real positives with hospitality and welcome and then also some disappointments. Whatever I do after seminary and whatever kind of congregation I might work with, welcoming people who are traveling is going to be a huge part of. Of that for me. And I think, like you said, Keith, that's not always something that Lutherans are good at. And being someone from the. And I can say this from a more cultural perspective rather than a religious category, people from the Midwest aren't always the best. And I include myself in that. I'm a Midwesterner at heart, not always the best at welcoming people. And that's something that I've one my own experiences on the bike trail and then my partner's much superior ability to be welcoming to people have really challenged me to make that a part of how I live out the gospel.

Yeah, I think you'd get some pushback on that because of course, Midwesterners, we consider ourselves champion hospitality people. But I think often in churches, I think we. We expect people to come in a certain way and if they don't come in that direction, we. We don't recognize that they're coming in.

Right.

And yeah, you know, in a lot of cases that's family, like we welcome in, you know, so and so's cousin. So there's somebody to introduce them, but somebody just walking in off the street street or off the bike trail. We're just not ready for it. Even if our church is right next to the bike trail.

Right. Yeah. And I wonder if any of that is shaped by. Once folks make the realization, oh, you're literally here for the next hour and then we're never going to see you again. Does that change the sense of investment on either side of the equation or perceived investment is probably a better way to say it and so influence that decision? I think about part of the synonym where I'm at. The Appalachian Trail passes through and some of the churches that sit along the trail have made it part of their ministry or maybe if they're not immediately on it, to occasionally pack up a bunch of lunches and go out and sit by the side of the trail and as the through hikers are coming to offer them a bottle of water and a sandwich and a bag of chips or whatever. And that's just become a part of their outreach and they. And again, knowing full well they may never see these people again, but that sense of just gracious hospitality, offering, you know, a bottle of water and a bite to eat to a perfect stranger simply because you know that if they don't eat her in this immediate moment, they're gonna buy tomorrow. And so, you know, maybe they eat this food today because it's what they have. Maybe they eat this food today so they can save what they were going to eat for one more day and, you know, avoid having to eat in the gas station or the expensive restaurant if they're lucky enough to encounter either one of them along the trail. I could see, you know, that. That possibility in the. In the biking world as well as in the hiking world.

You know, and I'll say this about the communities that are along these rails to trails. It's really not just the Lutheran churches. I would say even from an economic standpoint, the businesses don't really know what they have along the trails. So there's not a lot out there that's catered to cyclists. But the other side of that is there aren't a lot of people out on these trails. I, maybe a little bit of narcissism thought everyone's going to have this idea the trails are going to be full of people doing what I'm doing. And that just wasn't the case. So there's a lot of barriers. I think even if people want to be out on the trail for an extended period of time, there's lots of barriers to that. And so I think that a lot of the communities, churches, and really everyone don't really know the gem that they have in these bike trails, like what they could be.

Yeah. So two of my takeaways from your story, the first one is that a lot of our churches don't check their email or don't make sure that their email addresses are actually checked. And that's just generally true. A lot of times a pastor gets assigned an email address and the next pastor comes in and keeps their own, and we don't know how to do. You know, we're going to get nerdy here. But aliasing on emails and forwarding things and all that sort of stuff, it just. It isn't something that we think about very often because we're all worried about housing and benefits and all that sort of stuff.

Stuff.

And I think often the website and how our website looks to visitors, to people who are looking for us, comes off. And we don't just see that in congregations. We see it on our ELCA website too. I think Imran Siddiqui would tell us. The second part is that our congregations, it would be helpful for us to reframe visitors that come in like this. People that we know will only be here for a day. The, you know, whether it's the grandkids that are only in for Christmas weekend. And that if we look at that as practice, right, we can practice with these folks and we can mess up pretty bad and it's not going to hurt us long term, but we can learn how to get it right and be welcoming. Because I think hospitality is something that you have to keep well oiled. You have to keep it moving and don't get sore, don't get stuck so that it's fresh and so that you remember what to do when somebody comes in, how to introduce them, how to tell them where to look in the hymnal or what's going to be on the display up front or what's in the bulletin when we're going to stand up and down. Even as a supply pastor, I have to be able to ask folks what isn't in the bulletin. The most recent supplying I did, they don't have up and down, you know, stand, sit things in the bulletin. And so when somebody's coming in to supply, you know, you'd expect the supply pastor to be very, very welcomed. And while generally that's true, but sometimes the instructions for how we do our worship service are some of the most important and they don't get passed along as efficiently as they should. Right. And so I see that as a practice we can practice doing those things with our.

You have to watch that one really regular person that sits in the front row. Whenever they sit. You say to the congregation, please be seated.

You know, it's funny that you bring up those two things as sort of takeaways from my bike tour experience because those were two of my primary roles as an office admin was helping out the supply pastor, getting them up to speed on the bulletin and answering the church emails. So, yeah, Zizzy, my partner, said that we were kind of like ELCA secret shoppers.

We were, right.

I mean, and you'll experience as you go through your ministry that when you do supply, you kind of are on the other side too. You feel like you're secret shopping for, for the next minister in this. We've got two congregations that are, that are in the search process right now. And so, so yeah, I feel like I'm sort of secret shopping them and I, and I pass it along like Your, let's see, most recently it was your, your live stream of the service has crackling all over it from three particular microphones. And you got to figure that out or else it's not going to be really listenable for somebody who isn't invested in listening to this particular service.

Right, right. So, yeah, you know, Justin, I'll get back to the question that I asked you and I, I, as I'm reflecting further, I, I think one of your answers that you've said without saying is that you're the, the bicycle ministry or the bicycle segment of your future ministry is really about community. And what, you know, you spoke of how you can look at bicycle ministry as a positive effect on the environment, for example, but you can also look at it as, you know, community. And I know from other forms of exercise the importance of community in those spaces and how people look forward to encountering new faces and old as they are engaged in those activities. And so, yeah, absolutely. I could see you nurturing, nurturing community through the ministry of bicycling in many different fashions. Absolutely. I wish you well in that.

Yeah. And I think that there's a, there's a real possibility for creating a kind of pilgrimage or retreat experience on a bike because you have that, that shared physical exertion that does build community and then also forces you to rely on one another. That is a different way to experience meditation than stationary. And yeah, I want to explore that. I don't know where that could lead, but I agree that the possibilities for community there are something I want to deal.

When I was a kid, we had an annual bike hike.

Yeah, I was just thinking of a week long summer vacation Bible school for adults on bikes.

Yeah, that's kind of what I envision too.

That's fantastic.

Well, our church did a progressive dinner through the day. So you'd ride from one house to another. And then, and this is out in the country, so it'd be about five or six miles between, so not terribly close. And the guy that led it in his Datsun pickup truck, people always made fun of him for never actually riding the bike. So the last year that I remember doing it, they strapped a stationary bike in the back of his truck and somebody else drove it. And he rode on the stationary bike as we rode down the road. It was pretty funny, but it was probably 75 or 80 people that would do this going from house to house. And it was, it was definitely a memory from my childhood that, you know, is a good sign of the community that was there. So needed.

And I knew a couple that. Yeah, I knew a couple. The town that I used to live in was right on a rail trail. And a couple from my current church, because it's not very far away, talked about how they would go to that particular town with. With their bikes on the back of the car, park the car there, eat dinner at the restaurant that was right in town, get on their bikes, ride to the next town over where they could get a beer, and then they would go to the next town over where they would have ice cream sundaes, and then they would ride back and load up the car and go back home again. That was one of their, like, once a month through the summer kinds of family activities for them. So cool. Well, Justin, thank you so much for being willing to take time with us today and share some of your story. We certainly wish you well on your continued exploration of candidacy and seminary and ministry and all of that, and we hope to hear about future rides from you.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Well, thank you, Justin Marquis, for being with us for that episode. And thanks all of you for tuning in and listening. I think that was really a fascinating story and a great conversation about, you know, discernment, what it be, what it means to be church. And I thought that, you know, his making those ties to hospitality was really, really powerful. I think we sometimes forget just how significant an impact hospitality has on people, visitors, regulars, etc.

Yeah.

And that idea of taking the time to practice hospitality, you know, even if somebody we know is transitional, you know, somebody's coming through because they're visiting the area or they're visiting family, and they're not. They don't have a. They don't have any practical reason to become a member of the congregation. It doesn't mean we can't exercise those muscles and get used to it.

Well, and it reminds you again that we practice hospitality because of the scriptural mandate to do so and the motivation of the Gospel to share the welcome of Christ, not because we're trying to make more members of the church.

Right.

That was great.

Yeah. You know, one way to practice hospitality is to practice telling people about your congregation. And one way to do that is to fill out our form for better know, a congregation. Someone did that recently. You want to talk about it?

Sure. Yeah. I have the opportunity to brag a little bit about my home church, St. Matthew Evangelical Wuthering Church in York, Pennsylvania. We are proudly part of the Lower Sasquatch Swahana Synod. I serve There as pastor alongside Deacon Margaret Fulkamer Leonard, who is a veteran guest of our show as well. Our website is www.stmat.org. so every other congregation in the world called St. Matthew is jealous of that website. Apparently they secured it a very long time ago. I think the Internet was created on a Tuesday and by Wednesday night somebody had sent that domain request in. We're asked on our form for these submissions to talk about the number of members that you have in your congregation. And you know, St. Matthew has about 350 active households. I think that translates for us to about maybe 900 active members would be my guess. That is a significantly smaller number than we have in our roles. And, and lots of pastors and church leaders can talk about, you know, the difference between active membership and inactive membership and, and people that you've got in your membership database.

And we actually have a membership episode even where we talk.

That's right. So yeah, yeah. Programs that St. Matthew is proud of after being there for 15 years, plus my own time as a member there for a little while when I was between calls. I know beyond a doubt that we always talk about our community outreach. You know, we mentioned the Trunk or treat that's happening at the beginning of this episode. But that's an extension of some of the established programming that we have with the MATS Youth center, which has a teen program that happens in the evenings during the school year. It also has an after school program for elementary kids that happens during the school year. And then they do programming of different kinds throughout the summer months as well. The St. Matthew Assistance Ministry is a financial outreach where people can call in, let's say you've got a utility bill that you can't pay or a medical prescription that you can't pay, and you can submit that, that bill and get up to $50 towards that expense. They also give out bus passes and gas vouchers so that people can get to work or maybe to job interviews or securing a new job. And folks can come and avail themselves of that opportunity up to four times a year for that $50 in support or that bus pass, whatever it might be. And so they get some return returning customers. They also get a lot of people that just come once and are grateful for that support. And then, you know, they, they do not return again, but that's okay. And that, that happens for us throughout the year it's been going on. This is actually the 25th anniversary year of that ministry. It's been going on for a quarter of a century. We also have A food pantry. And then most recently, and we've talked about this in the show too, St Matthew is a reconciling a Christ congregation, which means that we've got a statement and a position of welcome and attitude towards folks in the LGBTQ community, as well as a commitment to racial justice. And so that's a newer program for us, but it's one that we're really leaning into and trying to live up to. We have two worship services on Sunday. We have an 8:30 service that happens in our auditorium, and at 11 o' clock service that happens in the nave. Those two spaces really help to shape what those services look and sound and feel like. The 8:30 service, the auditorium is a very attractive, comfortable, high tech auditorium space. It still has all the feel of a Lutheran worship service, but it's in a place that's a little less traditional looking, maybe a little less intimidating to some folks. It's very family friendly and it's just a relaxed kind of atmosphere. That service is led by a praise band. The liturgy and the sermon are identical to what we do at 11 o' clock. Spoken liturgy, I should say. There's not a sung liturgical setting in that space, but we sing praise music and a lot of hymns too. That can be worked into that kind of leadership style. So you'd probably find something familiar from a lot of different traditions in that room. And the 11 o' clock traditional service is, like I said, in our nave, which is a space that is nearly 100 years old and quite beautiful and has a fantastic pipe organ and really live acoustics and is a great space to be in as well. For the late service. Favorite song, I would suggest the Canticle of the Turning. It's one that is known by both of those separate congregations in their different liturgical styles. The Canticle of the Turning is a. It's a piece of contemporary music in that it's less than 50 years old, but it wasn't written this century, so it's somewhere in there. But it's based on the Magnificat Mary's proclamation of the gospel at the beginning of Luke. And so it's a beautiful song and a challenging one, too. If your congregation had a mascot, what would it be? So York, we both falsely and proudly proclaim ourselves as a first capital of the United States of America. I don't think that's entirely, entirely true, but it was absolutely a pivotal place for a lot of things that did happen around the Revolutionary War and the time leading up to and after that. It was the site of one of the Continental Congresses. It was the location where the Bill of Rights was drafted and signed. And so there's a lot of stuff that's known as the first Capitol in York, you know, various businesses and organizations. So I think if we had a mascot, we would be the Capitals. We'd probably get chewed out for it by people who really know their history. But there you go. What does everyone need to know about your congregation? We are committed to being a witness of loving kindness to our community. And I think that, you know, our history of the youth center and community outreach, that our IC status, etc. Are all a testament to that. And so. Yeah, that's a, that's a quick picture of, of St. Matt's awesome.

Yeah. So if you are anywhere near York, Pennsylvania on a Sunday, stop on in and say hi. Very welcoming community there. Great. Well, glad we get to share some updates from us. Just, just some, some of our, our regular business here. Don't forget we have T shirt as as Christmas comes. If you got a favorite Lutheran that doesn't have a Main Street Lutheran shirt that talks about the essence of Lutheran, our Lutheran faith. Give it a look. We've got links on our website also in the episode notes. I did a quick webpage update a few weeks ago that, that sort of brings to the front a few more of the resources that we'd been asked for. So some folks had been asking about our tip jar program and that's, that's got some links that are less buried in there and so you can see those there. It also has a little more information on, on Keith and myself and, and how to get in touch with us and some of that. So, so yeah, that is our. That is our episode. Thanks for listening. Main Street Lutherans is hosted by Keith Fair and Ben Fot and the show is produced by Phote Media Productions. I'll learn how to say that right sometime. Find all our contact information, links and a transcript in the episode notes. Until next time, go in peace. Serve the Lord.

Thanks be to God.