This is Keith and this is Ben. And this is Main Street Lutherans. This episode, our 19th episode, I'm very excited that we'll be on to episode 20 soon, but our 19th episode is about deacons in the ELCA. I know a few deacons. Keith, you know a few deacons. What do we know about deacons?

I even know one or two deaconesses which are same thing but different depending.

Come to think of it. I actually just know two deaconesses.

Yeah. Yeah. And so we're going to have, this episode is going to explore all of those distinctions and then some about why, you know, kind of where the, the role of deacon comes from, scripturally, where the role of deacon fits into the ELCA today. And, and it's an interesting history because, you know, as the episode will describe, there's a lot of, there's a lot of history tied to the formation of the ELCA and the various mergers that have been a part of that. And some of the way that deacons as we understand them today have come about have to do with how we understood deacons in the past and those mergers. And some of it is also just trying to stay in line with, you know, our modern understanding of the church and how it works. So I think this is a pretty interesting conversation.

Yeah. And these are two folks that you know from candidacy, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, they're both people that I've known for a very long time, at least 1515 to 20 years apiece. One of them is Sister Maryam Brock, who is both a deaconess and a deacon. And she'll tell you what the distinction between that is a little bit. I met her when she was the director of Camp Nwaqua, which is here in our Lois Susquehanna Senate. She now has a different role. And Deacon Shell Huth, who is on staff at United Lutheran Seminary, one of the ELCA seminaries. And one of the parts of her job is to help people in discerning calls to ministry and whether they feel called to become a pastor or a deacon or to pursue some other form of work in the church and or education in the seminary level.

Awesome. Well, let's get right into it.

Well, hello and welcome to this edition of Main Street Lutherans. I have the opportunity today to be with two of my friends and colleagues, and I'm going to let them introduce themselves because I'll probably mess up their titles anyway. They already previously agreed to go in their version of alphabetical order.

So with that, I am Sister Maryam Brock. I am a deacon in the ELCA, but also a member of the deaconess community of the ELCA. And my current call is as the regional gift planner for the ELCA foundation for three synods in the central part of Pennsylvania. So upper and lower, Susquehanna and Allegheny synods.

I'm Deacon Shell Huth and I am called to serve United Lutheran Seminary as the director of contextual formation team ministry candidates, affiliate students, certificate studies, and an adjunct faculty member.

And we'll have an opportunity as we go through to maybe talk a little bit about at least what a couple of those things mean. Just for those that, that are not familiar with United Lutheran seminary, this is a seminary in Pennsylvania with two campuses, one in Gettysburg and one in Philadelphia. And the topic on the table is actually talking about deacons and deaconesses and what they mean for the ELCA. And because these two fine women have been wearing these hats for some time and kind of seen how these roles came about, it seemed like a wonderful opportunity to learn from you about your roles as deacons and a deaconess, and also a little bit about defining what those terms mean. So let's just start with that. I know that the word deacon, you can hear about deacons in christian circles kind of across denominational lines to a very wide extent and with a really wide variety of meanings, everything from a layperson with some responsibility in their congregation to somebody who actually works as a formal leader in some capacity. But those capacities vary widely. So could one of you or each of you say a little bit about what the word deacon means currently in the evangelical Witheran church in America?

Yeah, I'd actually like to kind of take it to where did we get the term deacon? I think that's really helpful for us to know where we got the term deacon from. And it actually comes to us from the New Testament script scriptures where the term deacon is given to a leader of a faith community. And so it's kind of the precursor to pastor and church community was looked up vastly different in New Testament times than it does today. And so deacons were responsible for a house church and helping to build people in the faith of the resurrected Jesus. And so that term deacon has continued throughout the centuries where it is somebody who is serving in a leadership role to continue to build the faith around the resurrected Jesus Christ. And so in the elca, the same is true. We as deacons serve in leadership roles both within congregational context and in society. As I talk with candidates and people who are in discernment about ministry, whether it be ordination and word and service, or word and sacrament, I say that deacons serve where the church meets the world, and we serve as the bridge of the church meeting the world. And I even like to say there's no theological background or foundation in any of this piece of it. But even our stole, which is a cross body stole that goes from one shoulder down across our chest and over to the other side on our waist, is a signal of that bridge of where the church meets the world.

The two rosters that you mentioned, the ministry of Word and Service, that would be the roster for deacons, and the ministry of Word and Sacrament would be the roster that we use for pastors. Thanks, Shel. So, Mary Ann, as the resident deaconess on this call, could you give us a little bit of background about that term and what it means for the ELCA today?

Well, sure. Absolutely. I am a member of the deaconess community of the ELCA, which is a community that was up until just a few years ago, until the rosters were merged, which I'm sure we'll cover that. We. We were a roster. The deaconesses were a roster unto themselves. Back in the 18 hundreds in Germany, there were women who wanted to serve the church, the lutheran church, but of course, ordination was not open to them, and so an order of deaconesses was developed, and there was a school, and most of the deaconesses served in teaching or nursing or other social ministry roles. And those deaconesses who were in Germany were very highly regarded. They were quite good at the work that they did. And that model was brought here to the states in the mid 18 hundreds, actually, to Pennsylvania, where we are all seated right now, and that deaconess community was formed here as well. A long time ago, everybody lived in the same building. They lived in community, which our deaconesses no longer do. So the deaconess community continues as part of the ELCA, but the community itself is a separately incorporated ministry. All of our deaconesses, they're about 85, I would say right now, we're all rostered leaders in the ELCA. Our title is sister, because that was the historic title. And I have a Julie Andrews complex, so I retain that. I could go by Deacon. I prefer sister. That's the very condensed version of the history of the deaconess community.

You mentioned the roster merging. That's a phrase that we're all familiar with. But could one or both of you chime in a little bit about what that event was for the ELCA and what that means in terms of how it applies for our conversation today?

Yeah, I can certainly do that. Prior to 2016, there were two lay rosters in the ELCA. Those two rosters actually came from our predecessor bodies when the ELCA was a merger with the ALC and LCA back in 1987. And so they retained those rosters from those two entities into the ELCA. So you were either a diaconal minister or an associate in ministry, and associates in ministry tended to do congregational ministry calls. So christian education directors, youth ministry directors, lutheran school teachers, lutheran school directors is the role of an associate in ministry, so very congregational. And then diaconal ministers served more in social service organizations, parachurch organizations like immigration, refugee services, feeding and housing locations, those social service organizations. And so we had associates and ministries and diaconal ministers as the two lay rosters in the ELCA. And then back in 2015, the conversation started about joining these two rosters into a one singular roster that made more sense to kind of get us in line with our ecumenical partners that we're in relationship with in what's called, what is an understanding called call to common mission. That if you're rostered in one denomination that we're in this call to common mission with, you could also then serve a congregation or a ministry in another denomination. So, for instance, we're in CCM with the episcopals and the Presbyterians, and so we could go over to that denomination and serve. And so as a part of that, the ELCA wanted to be in better partnership and relationship with those denominations. And so the conversation happened and the votes happened, where we melded those rosters into one, and it was called deacon. Now, there is the singular deacon roster, as opposed to these other rosters. And then in addition to that, after that decision was made to meld into one roster, the decision was made to make it an ordination roster, where before it was just a lay ministry designation, we were still rostered in the ELCA, meaning we had to go through vetting process and education and preparation in order to be rostered in the ELCA. It was a roster to a lay ministry, it was not an ordination. But then when the two rosters were melded into deacon, that's when we moved into the conversation about making it an ordination. And so, as I said earlier on, we have an ordination into word and sacrament, and that's a pastor. Our pastors, clergy are ordained into word and sacrament, called to a congregation to preside over the two sacraments in the ElCa of baptism and communion. And then the deacon roster is ordained into word and service. And so we do not have the ability to preside over the two sacraments, but we are called to preach, teach, go out into the world and care and serve in a variety of ways. But we are not. Our primary responsibility is not to administer the two sacraments.

And the deaconess community was also pulled into that merger, too. This to 2016 to 17 merger, the deaconess community was rostered in the church. Our deaconesses were were sister, as I said before, but now they're just, they're considered deacons. Not just, they are considered deacons. And on that word and service roster sometimes talk about if you're a deacon, you're like the fun aunts and uncles of the ELC at rostered leaders. Because as Shel said, we're, when you're a minister of word and sacrament, you are responsible for those things. But as a minister of word and service, it opens up just. We just have. We can be more imaginative with our calls, we can be more creative and flexible with our calls in the ways that we serve, either in the church or serving out in the world, but always serving as that bridge. We have the ability to focus on special projects and initiatives and that sort of thing, but at the same time, we're not authorized to do all the things that pastors do. So that's kind of what makes us the fun aunt and uncle. We're still in authority, but we can do things a little bit differently. It's not that we've been the rules, but our rules are a little less restrictive than the word and sacrament books.

We have a lot more creative freedom in our calling than word and sacrament does. Necessarily. Typically in the ELCA, word and sacrament is a congregational calling. There could be a calling to synod work as an assistant to the bishop, or there could be a calling to the church wide offices of the ELCA in those expressions. Outside of that, there's very few callings that are also pertinent to word and sacrament. Because the idea of word and sacrament is that you're caring for a congregation and you're caring for the administration of the sacraments to that congregation.

But deacons have a much wider variety of what their calls may look like, is what I hear you saying.

Absolutely. I mean, just like with Sister Marianne and I sitting here on this call with you, we have two vastly different calls and we're doing vastly different work, but still really important to the work.

Of the church and neither of them within the context of a congregation.

Exactly right. That's exactly right. Yep. For instance, I have a former student that is now working in an organization that helps resettle immigrants when they come here to the nation, to the United States. Her work is with an organization that is not a church organization, but she has a call, as a word in service deaconous. She's been able to work with the ELCA and that organization to have a call in that non church organization as a deacon doing that work. So we can be super creative and super flexible, which is one of the parts of our call is that typically we're called to be creative and we're called to help shape the world through our faith in Christ in a variety of ways. And so it's pretty exciting and really wonderful.

I hear that flexibility is the advantage for deacons, but I also know from another role that the three of us all happen to be a part of in candidacy, that there's then an added layer of challenge and frustration for Deakin candidates as they are preparing to be ordained and looking for, you know, that first, that first role, that first call, because again, for pastors, it's very clear, you know, that first call is going to be into a congregation in some setting, either as a solo pastor, as an associate pastor, as a lead pastor, whatever, typically. But for a deacon, that first call could be in as diverse a number of settings as we have the number of deacons. So can you say a little bit about what that process is for, how that first call comes about, or perhaps how it came about for you, either one of you, or for some of the other folks that you know?

Yeah, I can talk a little bit about how I work with Deakin candidates at the seminary, as I do advising work with them and I do the contextual placement work for them as a part of their preparation. They have to do three different field education experiences and I'll talk about that in a little bit when we talk about the preparation of students, of candidates, but I talk with them and say the sky's the limit. That's one of the beauties of going into word and service rostering is that you get to kind of choose your path and your passions are what should lead you in, where you're going to be looking for your first call and you're allowed to be creative. And then you'll work closely with the synod that you are called to, that you've been assigned to, to create that call that can then be registered with the ELCA as a, as a legal, documented call within the guidelines of the ELCA call requirements. So I start them off very early saying you get to choose your adventure and you get to live into your passions and you don't have to be put into this, this one path. You get to choose your path and then how that looks is really up to you. And know that those of us that have forged that path ahead of you are going to support you in the work that you're doing and guide you in all of that. And so that's a really important process in candidacy. I really think that every candidacy committee in the ELCA should have at least one deacon serving on their candidacy committee so that these kinds of things can be paid attention to and can be modeled for those candidates in discernment in that candidacy process. I really think it's super important.

And I know that for many Deakins, and I'm one of them, I was ordained or I was consecrated because just of the timing of it, but, but I already had, like, I already had my sort of specialized area. I worked in outdoor ministry for 20 years, and so I was already doing that. I was already serving the church when I decided it was time to maybe look into candidacy and becoming a roster leader in the church. So most deacons come in with specialized training in an area that is not necessarily related to the church. They come in with those skills and then the rostering piece is just the next layer of that. So we have, you know, when you talked about how we have as many options as we have deacons for how we can serve, our deacons are highly skilled in the areas that they serve and they are rostered leaders in the church, which is not to be, not to say that pastors are less skilled or less able, but it's just a much more, they have a much more streamlined and set way of coming into the rostering.

Yeah, our specializations are more similar than different. And whereas Deakins, their specializations are very broadly different times.

That's a good way of saying that.

So let's talk a little bit about the education then. What, you know, how is the education? And I hate sounding like we're comparing deacons to pastors constantly, but for the sake of the, of listeners who are more familiar with your understanding of what a pastor does or might do, can we say a little bit about what are the similarities and differences between the educational processes for becoming a pastor versus becoming a deacon?

Yeah, I can talk about that as a word and service pastor, you. The expected modality is a masters of divinity, which typically is a four year degree, three years of academics, and a year of internship to meet that four year degree requirement. For Deakins, it is a master of Arts degree, and typically it's a two year education process with a six month full time internship. So about two and a half years to get to finish your degree, to be able to move forward in the candidacy process of being ordained in word and service, folks will say they'll compare those degree processes. The difference really is that the masters of divinity is really designed for congregation pastoral work. And so there's a lot of similarities in the courses that we take. But the Master of Arts allows more freedom for us to do specializations around our areas of call. And so if somebody is doing justice work and they're feeling called to justice work, they're going to be able to have more coursework around justice issues and justice areas than they would in a master's of divinity degree. There's more opportunity for those specializations in a master of arts degree, and so you'll need to do them. You have to have a master's degree in the ELCA in order to be ordained into word and sacrament, just like you have to have a master's degree to be ordained in word and service. And so master's degree is required, candidacy is required, and then the field educations are required, both word and sacrament, and word and service have to do three components of field education. And there's a, there's a first year field education, which is a placement within a congregation just on Sunday mornings. And you do that for the fall semester and the spring semester of your first year. And the idea is to understand what does this call look like from the other side of the altar, because you've been sitting in the pews for most of your life, and you are now looking at it from the other side of the altar. And so being able to understand the identity and authority that comes from that position of where you are in the sanctuary is an important thing to start building early on in your process. And so that first year field education is they're just in a congregation on Sunday mornings, they're having congregation, or they're having conversations with the leadership of the congregation to understand what it is that they're doing and understand their call. So they talk a lot about a sense of call, and they start to dig deeper into their own discernment and sense of call. And am I in fact called to word and sacrament, or am I called to word and service? And so that first year is a real good opportunity for all of our candidates to dig deeper into that discernment time. All candidates are required to take part in what's called clinical pastoral education, CPE, where you do pastoral care in some sort of clinical kind of setting. So hospitals, nursing homes, VA centers, continued care locations, rehab facilities, mental health facilities. And so you go into a CPE program where you learn how to be truly present with people, sometimes in the worst times of their lives. And so it helps you deepen your own sense of call. It also helps you understand how to dwell with people in the spaces, in the world outside of a congregation context, but that Christ is still at the center of the spaces where you are with these people, that God is truly present. You're not bringing God to the people, you're learning how to point to God in the spaces. And so everybody that goes into rostering in the ELCA is required to do clinical pastoral education. It's 400 hours, and the normal modality is ten weeks full time in the summer, but then we have lots of other opportunities that are extended and all this kind of stuff. But anyway, it's 400 hours, 300 clinical hours, and 100 hours with your supervisor and a cohort. So you get to spend a lot of time unpacking things and learning how to do ministry better, more effectively, based on conversations with your colleagues in your cohort. And then each of the rosters is required to do an internship. Word and sacrament roster is required to do a year long internship in a congregation setting. And word and service is required to do a six month full time internship in a setting that is focused around their area of expertise and also then have a congregational component. So, for instance, at ULS, we've just graduated a student that had a real passion around interfaith dialogue and engagement, and so served at an interfaith community organizing program in her town that tried to build and pull together the resources of all of the faith denominations to do best for their community. And so she served there and then also served a congregation during that internship. And what she did was she bridged the divide or the distance from that interreligious organization and the congregation, and has now created this beautiful relationship with that congregation and this interfaith organization that had not existed before. And so her internship looked like, what are your passions and how does that fit into bridging the. Bridging the church and meeting the world? So that's the educational requirements, preparation requirements for that roster.

Hey, I want to back up for a second and just make some terminology clear again in that deacon, as we use the term in the ELCA, is a generalist title. A person of any gender can be a deacon, but deaconess is not. So a deaconess is not necessarily just a person who happens to be a female deacon. And I wonder, Marianne, if you could explain that just a little bit, knowing that again, as we've already talked, there is some overlap in the two communities and their work, but can you parse that out for us a little bit again?

Well, sure, I'd be happy to. One of the easiest and simplest ways to understand that is that all deaconesses with a capital d are deacons, but not all deacons are deaconesses. That's kind of what you said. I am a deaconess because I'm a member of the deaconess community, which I talked about a little bit ago. It's a separately incorporated ministry, but also part of the roster. You can also be a deaconess if you're a member of the Lutheran Deaconess association, which is an organization, also an organization that is apart from the ELCA. But many of the members of that association serve in ELCA settings and congregations. So their title is deaconess, but they are not necessarily rostered in the church. To be in the Lutheran Deaconess association, you, the requirements are quite different, and it's not a recognized roster of the ELCA. Again, they're doing wonderful work and often in an ELCA setting. So that's super confusing. Thanks for letting me clear that up. But also, a lot of it is terminology, but there is something behind that terminology. I can use the title of deacon, but I don't because I love my call to serve in the deaconess community. And so I like to lift that up and I like to be able to also present that as a possibility because that roster is not closed. We're still bringing in new candidates in the deaconess community. So. Yeah, so there, I've made it perfectly clear.

Well, and I mean, it can also be the term that's used for a female deacon. So I could call myself deaconess shell, but I also understand the importance of the deaconess community, and I am not a part of that deaconess community. And so to call myself deaconess doesn't make any sense. I am a rostered deacon in the ELCA and not a part of the deaconess community. And not because I don't like the deaconess community. I think they're amazing and lovely and I'm so thankful for my, my friend and colleague, Sister Marianne, and the work that she is doing. It's just not something that I've been called to do in, in my process. So I go by deacon.

And I appreciate the way you stated that, Shel, because in the ElCa, and again, it's insider language, but in the ELCA, if your title is sister, that means that you're a member of the deaconess community. It might mean it only within our context, but it does mean something in this context. And the same with, and that would, it's similar with the Lutheran Deaconess association. They use that title deaconess. And so when I hear that, I automatically lean toward the assumption that that person is a member of the Lutheran Deaconess association. It might not be the case, but.

Sister Marianne has kind of opened this up a little bit about this, you know, this name, these words, these terminologies inside of where we are. There are also in the ELCA synods that have deacons that are not rostered, ELCA deacons that have gone through candidacy. They are specifically only lifted up within their synod. And so they could not go outside of their synod and be a deacon somewhere else without going through whatever that synodically required preparation is for that synod's.

Deacon and those various synods that may have that role. What a deacon is in that context is up to them to have defined. So you're not even going to find necessarily consistency from one synod to the next in that level. It's only at the ELCA of the denominational level and the term, the way deacon is used there that we have a mutually agreed upon understanding of that word. So, yeah, again, you know, thanks for introducing that level of confusion to the discussion.

Right. I know. So there's, it's important to understand the distinction and what the rostering means. And so folks said to me when I was going through this process, why? Why are you going through candidacy? You're going to continue doing the things you're doing. Why even bother going through candidacy and becoming rostered in the Esdeen? And my answer to that is that I deeply valued the expectations and the commitment that I make to the ELCA and that the ELCA makes to me as a rostered leader. And that was really valuable to me to be able to say I uphold and adhere to the expectations and requirements of my ordination vows to the ELCA. And so that gives me a higher level of responsibility to myself and my words and the work that I'm doing, so that it's not just shell out there serving a congregation, but that I am a part of something larger that has expectations and helps me lift up that work that we as a denomination are doing here in this world. And so it was important for me to be a part of the roster so that I could continue to build something that I am committed to. And that is the ELCA.

It also means that we get to go to conference meetings, that we are expected to be at Senate assemblies and those sorts of things. So, yeah, those expectations are there too. But that is. But in those places, too, where we're rostered leaders alongside our word and sacrament colleagues, those responsibilities and expectations are there for us, which were not necessarily always there for us or even open to us when we were serving in a lay capacity.

Yeah. For instance, prior to the ordination, the melding of the roster and the ordination of deacons, associates in ministry and diaconal ministers did not have votes in ELCA policies or polity in any way. The only way that you had vote was if you were a voting member from your congregation. And so now that, now that it's an ordination roster, we are now considered part of that voice and vote as an ordained member of the word and service roster in the ELCA. So that also came along with it, that not only did we just have voice, we now have votes as a rostered member. And that's important, too, because we have things to say about how we think the ELCA should be moving into the future.

We also get to fill out an annual report to our bishop. So we get to do that, too.

Yeah.

That's a great, great blessing and gift.

It is.

It's accountability. It's about accountability for us. Important that, you know, we're required to do continuing education. We're required to be at things like Senate assembly. Like Sister Marianne said, the accountability for us was important for me. And one of the main reasons I sought the rostering and the shift in the roster to an ordination, because I want that accountability, because I believe in the ELCA and the work that we're doing and the message that we have about grace in this world.

Well, and I think even for members in the pews, or perhaps people listening to this podcast too, to remember that our, our pastors are accountable to more than only their congregations. You know, in the same way that, you know, we attend these larger body meetings, you know, whether it's our local conference or our Senate assembly or the denominations church wide gathering every couple of years, that, that we are a part of something more than simply our own, our own congregational settings. And again, deacons serving in other variety of contexts have that same accountability. So thanks for that. Shel, you mentioned about the future of the ELCA. What do the two of you see as the future of deacons and how that future is tied to the future of the ELCA?

Well, one of the things that Sister Marianne and I talk a decent amount about is how necessary our flexibility as deacon and deaconesses are in the ELCA. Sister Marianne and I could actually be supplying in a congregation every single week of the year. That's how often there are needs to have a congregation served on a Sunday morning to lead worship and preach. And we, we're not producing as a denomination, we're not producing enough pastors. And that is a problem for us as a denomination. You know, our word and sacrament colleagues are not doing enough work in their ordination vows of lifting up future leaders. Not you, Keith, you're doing a great job of that, lifting up future leaders. It's part of your ordination vows to lift up future leaders in the church, and we're not doing that in the ELCA. And so there are lots of vacancies within the ELCA. And so that's one of the areas that deacons and deaconesses are able to serve, because we have that flexibility of not being called to a single congregation. We can make ourselves available to be out, and I could be in 52 different congregations in one year. There's that much of a need going on, and the same with Sister Marianne. And so one of the things that the ELCA is going to learn from us as deacons is how to be more nimble and flexible in what leadership looks like and what ministry looks like that it's not just congregationally centered, but it is community centered. And community can look a variety of different ways. One of the congregations that I'm working with right now, they're starting to have conversations about what does it look like to pair up with a couple of other congregations. And we share ministries together because we're all fairly small, but together we could be pretty mighty. And so I think that's the future of the ELCA is looking at that. It's not just a congregational model, but more a community model. And deacons can be strong leaders in helping to set that vision and working in those ways to help the ELCA move into that new way of thinking.

Yeah, I really feel like as the ELCA moves forward, I think the opportunities for deacons is just going to increase. We can think of it as a shortage of clergy, or we can think of it as an abundance of congregations, but either way, the problem is the same. But there are opportunities for deacons to expanded those expanded congregational settings. Maybe that community, community based model, which is in many ways an old model, everything old is new again. But where deacons and pastors can serve alongside one another, to serve a cluster of congregations where the congregation might not, each congregation might not have weekly Eucharist, because on certain weeks they would be served by a deacon and other weeks by a pastor. There are ways that we. That we can look at that. But the beautiful thing about the deacon Ross increasing is that we are available to the church, and we have been educated and we have been vetted for leadership in the ELCA, by the ELCA. And so we can serve in those ways and help the church continue as we grow and change.

Yeah. Because we've been passionate and creative in our call and in our sense of discernment. And so we can help the ELCA think creatively about what the ELCA looks like moving into the future. And it's super exciting. I think this is a really exciting, wonderful time for the ELCA, a denomination centered around grace and centered around love of neighbor. You know, it can look really beautiful moving into the future. And I'm super excited. I know there's a lot of folks that are just kind of like, you know, poo pooing and fussing and complaining, but I thrive on those kinds of things, and many, many deacons do. We thrive on creativity and variety. And so most deacons are super excited to be a part of the conversations of the future of the ELCA.

If ELCA hashtags. One of the ElcA hashtags would be grace, but another one would be hash priesthood of all believers. And I think that the deacons we love, part of our call is to empower the laity and so helping to help others think about their own work, be it in the church or outside the church, but as their own call and their own way of serving. So deacons are doing that. We've been doing it, and we're going to continue to do it. Deacons got a deek. I don't know what that means, but I do like saying it.

And I like to say our hashtag is deacons. We get stuff done. Yeah.

Right. Well, Deacon Shellhuth, Sister Mary Anne Brock, thank you both for being a part of a conversation with main street Lutherans today. I've been looking forward to this for some time. I know that there is a lot more that we could discuss and will, but we won't subject our listeners to it all. So thank you for taking the time to be here today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you. It was a joy to be here. Thank you.

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity to share our passion and our ministry. It was a real joyous.

Absolutely. So I want to say thank you once more to Sister Deaconess Marianne Brock and also to Deacon Shell Huth for their time and their contribution to our mainstream Lutherans podcast.

Yes, thank you very much. I think we'll talk about deakins a little more as we get going through. I think the role of deakins and deaconess is going to play a big role in the LCA going forward.

Yeah, I think that's true also. And I think there's also a lot of curiosity for people, you know, about the role of deacons and who they are and what they do. People seem to have a sense of what a pastor is and may or may not have a sense of what a deacon is. And it's such a malleable term, cross denomination lines. It can mean so many different things. So it's a lot of education to do with that.

That's right.

So onto our catechism questions.

Yes. So last episode, our question was what technology made Martin Luther's writing spread faster and farther and faster than prior critics of the Roman Catholic Church? The correct answer was the Gutenberg press. If you wondered about the Xavier Onassis quantum chair that is taken from a few different episodes of phineas and ferb, great answer there, I think. What about this week, Keith?

Well, this week, since we had a conversation about deacons, our question is what is the origin of the word deacons? Is it a, taken from the name David D. Deacon Jones, an NFL defensive lineman and hall of Famer known for coining the phrase quarterback sack? B, a reference to the rodent poison known as decon, which church sacristans and sextons use to keep mice away from the communion bread? Is it c, derived from the greek word diakonos, which means servant, waiter, or administrator? Or is it d, a much appreciated abbreviation of the academic pursuit known fully as deconstructionist eschatology and christological ontology nomenclature?

Can you say that again?

I'll try. Deconstructionist eschatology and christological ontology nomenclature.

Wow.

Wow.

So get your answers to us mostly by social media or bye. Email. You can reach us by [email protected] our website is mainstreetlutherans.com. that's a great place to share our episodes. By the way, we're on the socials as Main Street Lutherans on Facebook, Instagram threads and YouTube. You can call to leave us a message at 734-25-0954 all these things are in our episode notes. Main Street Lutherans is hosted by Keith Fair and Ben Fote. The show is produced by Fot Media Productions. Until next time, go in peace. Serve the Lord.

Thanks be to goddesse.